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[Lillipad]

No. Clans would be comprised solely of the leaders of the families. The families themselves are considered a "part" of the clan, but not members of the clan itself by my interpretation. So however many families are a part of the clan, is exactly how many members are in the clan.

[LordBucket]

How is that not an alliance?

[Lillipad]

Because almost every single group can be defined as an alliance?

[HailFire]

Keep in mind that even under this not-technically-historically accurate system, not every clan (particularly the myriad minor clans) could or should consist of more than one family, and vassals are still their own clans.

[LordBucket]

not-technically-historically accurate system

...yeah.

Ok, guys...I went back to the rulebook to try to figure this out, and I think I have an answer.

Not only did they Not Do The Research, they Just Didn't Care that they didn't do the research.

Apparently, according to L5R canon, which appears to be strangely bowdlerised mix and match of mostly Greek and Norse mythology and some other stuff with the names (mostly) changed out to sound more Japanese, a "clan" is an alliance of human families under the banner of Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades, Poseidon and Thor various children of the titans gods. The Emperor is Zeus Hantei, and they're all the sons and daughters of Rhea and Cronus Lady Sun and Lord Moon. And they needed one more to get eight so the 8th clan is ruled by Loki the evil brother.  Oh, also since they apparently wanted an obvious stand-in for the christian devil bad guy, they put in the Nothing from Neverending Story the Nothing from L5R.

It all starts with the first several children of Cronus Lord Moon and Rhea Lady Sun being eaten by Cronus Lord Moon. So Rhea Lady Sun tricks her husband into eating a stone instead of Zeus Hantei, who is raised by the goat Amalthea various animals, grows up and fights with Cronus Lord Moon to retrieve his brothers and sisters from his belly. During the battle he cuts Cronus Lord Moon apart, and his blood and semen only his blood falls to the earth to create Aphrodite, giants and some other stuff humans.

At this point they decided that humans needed to be ruled, so they met up with Goku at the World Tournament left Tengoku together and fought in a tournament to see who was the strongest who would get to rule the world. Zeus Hantei won the tournament, so they decided that he now ruled the entire world an arbitrary corner of one continent that from looking at the map is obviously not the entire world. So he divided it up into different tax zones areas and told Hera, Hades, Poseidon and the other gods his brothers and sisters that they could rule these tax zones areas and to pay him taxes a tithe on the labor of the humans who lived there, whether they liked it or not.

And that's how Equestria Rokugan was made.


That's the abbreviated version. There are also some guest appearances by the Norns, Odin and the Yggdrasil tree, a genderswapped version of the Hindu Lord Shiva (complete with four arms, but with three faces instead of five), a pre-human Naga empire that reminds me an awful lot of the one from World of Warcraft, a bastardized Bushido code that honestly reminds me of the eight virtues from Ultima except with humility removed, and some other stuff that's all blatant rip-offs of all sorts of things.

But short answer, according to canon, "families" are clans/families/great houses, and "clans" are the political units created by the gods dividing up the world amongst themselves, with any humans living in their designated zones considered their vassals.

I vote we forget about all that and go with what we have.

[HailFire]

Technically, we're supposed to be ignoring all of the flavor from L5R anyway, which makes me wonder why you reference Rokugan and Edo in your post. 

[LordBucket]

Edo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edo

Rokugan

...it was originally written "Keiko rides sidesaddle into the village on a small pony. A small and lovely girl, she wears an expensive-looking pink floral-print kimono" After a re-read it looked strange having the word "small" show up twice in two sentences so close together, so I changed "small pony" to "Rokugani pony." And then apparently changed "small and lovely girl" to "lithe and lovely" so it wasn't necessary.

Anyway, Rokugani has been removed.

[HailFire]

I know what Edo is, I was just implying that it wasn't necessarily the name of the capital in this game... though you're coming up with the Imperial family and the land is technically called japan anyway, so whatever. 

Also, character is FINALLY done, even though it's not the one I started with and I ended up abandoning a couple giant walls of text... and coming up with a bushi anyway.  (don't panic, thatkid, i'll still throw in a clan)

ED: to clarify, throwing the app up tomorrow after i finish the aforementioned clan, since i stayed up till after 3 am working on the char

[King_of_the_weasels]

I know what Edo is, I was just implying that it wasn't necessarily the name of the capital in this game... though you're coming up with the Imperial family and the land is technically called japan anyway, so whatever. 

Also, character is FINALLY done, even though it's not the one I started with and I ended up abandoning a couple giant walls of text... and coming up with a bushi anyway.  (don't panic, thatkid, i'll still throw in a clan)

ED: to clarify, throwing the app up tomorrow after i finish the aforementioned clan, since i stayed up till after 3 am working on the char

I thought the place you were at was called Nihon.

[LordBucket]

I thought the place you were at was called Nihon.

That would be Japan.

It's a romanization issue. The actual name is 日本. But how do you transliterate those characters into english? Well...depends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan
"Japan  (Japanese: 日本 Nihon or Nippon; formally 日本国 Nippon-koku or Nihon-koku, literally the State of Japan)"

The word "Japan" as you would pronounce it isn't what the Japanese call their country. You can't even say "Japan" in Japanese as you would pronounce the word in English. The vowel sounds don't exist. If a native Japanese speaker were to rattle off a dozen "Japanese words" that you think you know, like anime, Japan, shogun, samurai, ninja...you probably wouldn't even recognize that they were saying those words because the pronunciation is so different. Read this word out loud: "ninjutsu." How many syllables does it have? Wrong. It has two. How many of those syllables rhyme with the word "sin?" Wrong. None of them do. But the way these words are actually pronounced in Japanese is so awkward for a native English speaker that we've changed them when we adopted them into English. That works both ways. How many syllables does the word "Christmas" have when you say it? Two? In Japanese it has five because they can't say it in two. Whereas try to read this word in Russian: zdravstvuyte. That's three syllables, and "zdravst" is only one, and unlike French, you do pronounce all the letters. The sounds of different languages are different. Not just the letters. This is why people have accents.

Nihon and Nippon are both attempts to render in English characters the sounds of the name of the country we call Japan as they are pronounced in the language we call Japanese.

[Digital Hellhound]

Do we actually get to see LordBucket's PM'd character sheet? I do be intrigued.

[King_of_the_weasels]

I thought the place you were at was called Nihon.

That would be Japan.

It's a romanization issue. The actual name is 日本. But how do you transliterate those characters into english? Well...depends.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan
"Japan  (Japanese: 日本 Nihon or Nippon; formally 日本国 Nippon-koku or Nihon-koku, literally the State of Japan)"

The word "Japan" as you would pronounce it isn't what the Japanese call their country. You can't even say "Japan" in Japanese as you would pronounce the word in English. The vowel sounds don't exist. If a native Japanese speaker were to rattle off a dozen "Japanese words" that you think you know, like anime, Japan, shogun, samurai, ninja...you probably wouldn't even recognize that they were saying those words because the pronunciation is so different. Read this word out loud: "ninjutsu." How many syllables does it have? Wrong. It has two. How many of those syllables rhyme with the word "sin?" Wrong. None of them do. But the way these words are actually pronounced in Japanese is so awkward for a native English speaker that we've changed them when we adopted them into English. That works both ways. How many syllables does the word "Christmas" have when you say it? Two? In Japanese it has five because they can't say it in two. Whereas try to read this word in Russian: zdravstvuyte. That's three syllables, and "zdravst" is only one, and unlike French, you do pronounce all the letters. The sounds of different languages are different. Not just the letters. This is why people have accents.

Nihon and Nippon are both attempts to render in English characters the sounds of the name of the country we call Japan as they are pronounced in the language we call Japanese.

Well the character I was gonna play, and I did get permission to play as him. Was going to be "British", but come from Albion and not Great Britain, which is an archaic term for the island that England and Scotland are on.  But I think I'll just watch for now.  And it's not like Nihon is Japan, it's just Japan like, and also has the same name.. technically.

[LordBucket]

deleted

[HailFire]

Finally, my app:

Spoiler: Character App (click to show/hide)

Player Name: HailFire
Character Name: Tōkaku Asane
Profession: Bushi
Clan: Tōkaku/None
Family: Tōkaku/None
School: N/A
Physical Description: Fit, lean, and cris-crossed with a medley of small scars, but well-endowed, and extraordinarily tall- standing a whopping 5'10". She keeps her raven-black hair in a shoulder-length bob cut, with a single thin braid extending down to her waist, and her eyes- though rarely seen- are a deep green.
Personality: While Asane is keen, cautious, and superstitious, her front of eccentricity, obfuscating stupidity and slight, but nearly perpetual smile are the mask she's worn for so long that she's forgotten she does; few see her real emotions, and, while being aware of modern advances such as electric light and the trains, she distrusts them. Despite this, she's curious and quick to make friends, and her illiteracy, rough manner of speech, and naivete of society at large are genuine.

Her travels have also given her a sense of poetic justice- once, as a lesson in humility for a haughty merchant who treated those he encountered as peasants, she robbed him at sword-point for all of his possessions, and sent him screaming naked into the forest... but rather than spend even one zeni of the bounty, she caught up with the man in a village two days later, returning everything that he owned after he had had a chance to taste poverty for himself.
Skills: Living at the edges of society, virtually everything Asane knows she either learned herself, from fellow bushi and ronin in the wilderness, or from Shintō shrines, such as survival, athleticism, medicine, and in the use of the naginata, wakizashi, and daikyu, with which she strives to develop her own eclectic style. Despite being generally uncultured, she enjoys origami and long games of Shōgi, and has skill in both.

While not a conventional skill, she's also mastered a technique of seeing with her eyes almost completely closed; her emotions are difficult to read, and, being a light sleeper, but a frequent napper, it's also difficult to determine when she's really awake, asleep, or sleepwalking at any given time... occasionally, she uses this to provoke arrogant bushi by pretending to nod off during their boasts.
Biography: Daughter of the Daimyō of the Tōkaku clan, Asane was separated from her roots at an early age- one fateful day when her father took her out on a hunting trip, they were accosted by assassins, and she was thrown from their horse, tumbling down a hill and into the thick brush when it reared in surprise; though the Daimyō survived the attack (where the rest of the hunting party didn't), he was never able to find her, returning to the castle equally aggrieved and enraged.

Unfortunately, the fall, while not otherwise terribly injuring her, cost her her memory- waking in an unfamiliar forest beside an ornate naginata- which had by chance also fallen down the hill when her father was disarmed at one point during the battle- and a single kote bearing the mon of her family, now alien to her eyes, she did all she could: take the relics and survive wandering the wilds. As she grew and fended for herself, encounters with ronin and bushi would mold her into a capable warrior herself- Asane is not her name by birth, but one given to her by an affectionate old ronin she happened upon, whom, due to recognizing the style and mon of the artifacts she carried, is also how she learned of her family name.

Having unwittingly wandered to the opposite side of the island from her clan's homeland, Asane's life found direction in the oddest of places: On the day of her sixteenth birthday, she encountered a strange bird, unusually large and dark of color- though not entirely black- which she felt compelled to follow; despite doing so for roughly four years now, she only ever catches fleeting glimpses of it, while, at the same time, never losing track of it for more than a day at a time: It doesn't follow any migratory path, moving seemingly at random, yet never visiting the same place twice... it seems to be just as aware of her as she is of it, and has guided her through fortune both good and ill; she hopes it might eventually lead her to her family.
Goals: Asane is focused, yet directionless, like the bird of mystery that guides her path- it only rarely ventures near civilization, but now flies over the village of Sumeru. Her only concrete goal is mastery of the Naginata, though she deeply wishes to meet her family... And, perhaps, true happiness and fulfillment is to be found in that path of the samurai- to find a lord worthy of her blade, and a man- a samurai, as he must be both virtuous and able to defeat her in combat- worthy of her hand in marriage.

Spoiler: Clan/Family App (click to show/hide)

Name: Tōkaku
Description: A dangerous name for a dangerous clan- while not quite large or affluent enough to be called a great clan, it is home to shrewd courtiers and powerful samurai, maintains an iron grip over trade routes in it's coastal domain, and, due to the war, now holds another minor clan in vassalage.

-------------------------------------------

The philosophy of the Tōkaku family itself has always been that to best serve Daimyō and Emporer, one must excel in all things- and while they can (usually) keep their greed and ambition in check (or at least to socially acceptable levels), this philosophy has grown to border on perfectionism- any task one man can do, a servant or retainer of the Tōkaku clan is expected to do better, and a member doubly so. As a consequence of this pressure to succeed, whether they choose to generalize or exemplify one particular skill, Tōkaku tend to be proud, skilled, envious, and wary, and failures are quickly ostracized.

Unlike in many clans, the Tōkaku family does not contribute the military bulk of it's clan, despite being at it's head- many under it's patronage become silver-tongued courtiers or merchants, steadily expanding the Clan's influence, and not a few of those who become samurai balance their skill at war with the finer arts.

Contrary to what one might think, however, the Tōkaku are not actually dishonest- while they do not tend to follow the law or uphold the tenets of Bushidō for their own sake, those are the rules and standards by which success are measured, and to cheat would be to undermine Tōkaku's rightful superiority: to succeed dishonorably is no better than to fail.

ED: Yes, hyphens and semicolons are my source of power.

[Kadzar]

If we're putting in character sheets here I might as well put mine up. It hasn't received official approval yet (though that's not surprising, since I sent it in late last night), but, if any changes need to be made, I'll edit them in here later.

Spoiler: Moretsu Kenage (click to show/hide)

Player Name: Kadzar
Character Name: Moretsu Kenage
Profession: Courtier
Clan: The Ryoshun Shogunate
Family: The Morestu Family
School: Ikebana School of Etiquette
Physical Description: Kenage is quite fat. Not ridiculously so, but he is quite noticeably obese; he weighs almost as much as a sumo wrestler. He's also very weak; any activity more vigorous than a leisurely stroll will leave him breathless, both due to him being out of shape and his asthma. Plus he's nearsighted; he can't see anything very well past a hand's length without his glasses. These, like his clothes, are rather expensive and stylish, as he likes to dress to impress. He is in his early twenties, though he wears makeup that makes him look like he's in his thirties.
Personality: Kenage certainly appears to be a very kind and caring individual, though whether this is sincere or simply an act is hard to tell. He also seems to have a very calm demeanor, though that could be an act, too. He often appears quite naive, though just as often too showing deep knowledge or wisdom. He quite obviously likes food and also fancy clothing; he despises direct conflict and anything that involves physical exertion. As far as anyone knows, he is quite honorable. He would certainly never stab someone in the back, not unless he was quite sure he could get away with it harm or damage to his reputation, and there was some great reward or advantage to be gained from doing so.
Skills: Kenage has effectively no combat skills whatsoever. Instead, he prefers to get on an enemy's good side, whether through flattery,gifts, or favors, and, if peace can't be reached, he'll seek the aid of another. Instead of any arts of war, Kenage has been trained in the gentlemanly arts of etiquette, political maneuverings, acting, flower arranging, and watercolor painting, which he learned at the Ikebana School of Etiquette.
Biography: Like most Morestu, at a young age Kenage was sent to samurai school to train as a warrior. However, there was a problem: he would more often than not get quite winded after only a few sword slashes, and he lacked the large muscle coordination to hit the broad side of the dojo with said sword. Though the way of the warrior was traditionally the only life path for a Moretsu, after several years it was decided that allowing him to join their ranks would be more dishonorable than breaking said tradition. So he was sent off to courtier school and mostly forgotten by his family. Fortunately, as a courtier, Kenage thrived. There he excelled in the arts of manipulation and gentlemanly pursuits. He gained many friends and the respect of his teachers. He has recently graduated and is passing through Sumeru on his way to the Ryoshun court.
Goals: He hopes to gain his family's admiration by making them politically powerful.

Spoiler: Morestu Family (click to show/hide)

Name: Moretsu Family
Clan: The Ryoshun Shogunate
Description: The Morestu family is highly respected, though lacking in influence, due to the fact that it rears many fine samurai and no courtiers. As soon as they are able to grip a sword, Morestu of both genders are sent off to train to become warriors for the shogun. They are virtually unmatched in their bravery, and a group of Morestu are often said to cut through enemy ranks in a manner evocative of a tsunami.[The honor of the Morestu family or his lord is traditionally far more important to a Moretsu than his personal honor, so if need be, he will sacrifice himself for the reputation of his family or his daimyo, though the Morestu family usually stand up for their own. The Morestu family motto is "strength through unity", and their battle cry is "We are the ocean's wrath!"]

Spoiler: Ikebana School of Etiquette (click to show/hide)

Name: Ikebana School of Etiquette
Specialty: Courtiers
Description: The Ikebana school teaches it's students to disarm enemies with kindness (figuratively) and, in fact, not to refer to anyone as an enemy to their face. Direct confrontation is anathema to the Ikebana way; if a student of Ikebana school wishes to harm someone, they will do so through someone else or in such a way that no one can pin blame on them for the act. Of course, in the public eye, Ikebana school is a well-respected school known for teaching it's students etiquette, along with gentlemanly and ladylike pursuits such as flower arranging and acting.

I sent this all in one PM, since I wasn't sure whether thatkid wanted them together or separate, so I decided to go with the option that would lead to less unread messages in his inbox.

EDIT: I also made and sent off this school, which, though my character doesn't actually use, I felt it was important for me to make. Also I sent off an addendum to my family application, the changes are shown above in brackets.

Spoiler: Moretsu Family Dojo (click to show/hide)

Name: Morestu Family Dojo
Specialty: The Morestu Family trains Morestu to be a fierce fighting force. It's Specialty is the Morestu Hurricane Charge.
Description: On the battlefield, the Morestu Hurricane Charge is a terrifying sight to behold; their slashing blades are swung in perfect synchronization to create a virtual wall of lacerating death rushing towards the enemy. Even a solitary practitioner of this technique is frightening to face, though it loses most of it's defensive qualities, as there are gaps in the "wall" that would normally be covered by the blades of his or her fellows. As such, it won't protect the user, but it can be used to defend allies.

In battle, if a Morestu fighter is attacked and cannot parry the blow, he will move back or out of the way. If he cannot quickly return to his place and this puts the formation in danger of being breached, his fellow Morestu will recede like a wave to present an even front. It is more important to stay together than it is to gain ground apart. Any ground lost in such away can usually be regained anyway once the Morestu can muster their signature charge.

Normally, the Morestu family dojo does not accept non-Morestu, but, if someone proves themselves to be as brave as a Morestu, they can be allowed to train as long as they are made an honorary Morestu. However, this is not a decision to be made lightly, as a Morestu is honor bound to defend his brothers and sisters in reputation and body, and must join the Morestu in battle if his family or daimyo requests it.

The Morestu family dojo has existed for a long time: it is believed to predate the Moretsu family name. It's early practitioners wielded the bō, and for that reason it's use is still part of the training to honor tradition, though nowadays most of the emphasis is put on learning to use the katana, the katana/wakizashi pairing, and the naginata, all of which they actually use on the modern battlefield.