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Author Topic: The "How Does Minecart" Thread  (Read 223407 times)

Techhead

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #555 on: June 23, 2012, 11:45:23 pm »

Will occupants be injured if they ride in a minecart that falls a large distance? I want to know if I can build drop-pods into hell. Alternatively, will a cart hitting a floor grate eject their contents through it?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 11:48:03 pm by Techhead »
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San-A

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #556 on: June 24, 2012, 07:58:23 am »

You can basically use SE,WS,NW, and NE up ramps to create a 2x2 ramp that would relatively go straight up without having to travel horizontally. Might not be roller friendly though.
Basically this would be an helicoidal track?
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Snaake

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #557 on: June 24, 2012, 09:47:32 am »

Ok, thanks for the info then.
I quite followed this thread from the start but obviously I could skip or forget some stuff people mentioned.

Still I had a lot of creative fun while thinking about my design. :)

And thinking about it, most of it still remains useful:
- Dumping carts onto rails, or having them move from the track directly to the stockpile should save some micromanagement of creating many hauling routes with one minecart each.
- Having the minecarts being moved inside wheelbarrows should make their hauling MUCH faster. They are very heavy when full and dwarves move at about 1/10 speed when hauling full minecart. With wheelbarrow they would move at full speed.

The part you missed was webber's method back from #318:
I filled a small room with magma, dropped 3 minecarts in it, sealed the room from the magma sea with a small cave-in, drained it from magma and assigned the magma-filled minecarts to a small track on a surface, one by one. The track had a track stop with a dump order. All three minecarts, containing six units of magma, were without any incident transported to surface manually.
 
But:
If you pick up a magma cart or pick up the magma[833] stack, fiery death ensues.

...and I think I need to test my method again in 34.09.

He states in post #323 that he retested in 34.09, still worked. As stated, there was some comment back then that dwarf mode and arena seem to treat this differently. Could just be different physics, or maybe carrying a minecart to a track ("installing" the minecart) is also safe like guiding/riding, even though hauling it to a stockpile at the top isn't.

Kudos for figuring out how to fill larger magma reservoirs in an automated, no-human-input manner though. Although I think magma pistons are possibly still the simplest/fastest solutions for that. Minecarts are great for 4/7s or 6/7s for magma workshops, either with the above method or with a track.


For some reason one of my minecarts is dropping everything it carries on a certain ramp and then continuing onto its destination, the ramp is not a stop on any route, the minecart freely travels to the actual route every time. I have no idea why, the ramp is set up properly and all the track around it is as well, is there some maximum speed for going down ramps?

Possibly/probably, I don't think anyone gave a definitive answer with good data yet. It's not necessarily the reason for why your items spill though. You could be missing tracks somewhere, it could be going too fast at that point, or it could be something else entirely.


Will occupants be injured if they ride in a minecart that falls a large distance? I want to know if I can build drop-pods into hell. Alternatively, will a cart hitting a floor grate eject their contents through it?

IIRC cart-stasis was verified, yes, so long drops should be safe. Try it out. :P (maybe with a non-lethal drop distance at first)

You can basically use SE,WS,NW, and NE up ramps to create a 2x2 ramp that would relatively go straight up without having to travel horizontally. Might not be roller friendly though.
Basically this would be an helicoidal track?

Yes.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 09:49:07 am by Snaake »
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #558 on: June 24, 2012, 10:27:06 am »

Will occupants be injured if they ride in a minecart that falls a large distance? I want to know if I can build drop-pods into hell. Alternatively, will a cart hitting a floor grate eject their contents through it?

I tried this one in the arena, and found that you would still be injured ("The iron minecart strikes You in the right upper leg, shattering the bone!") if you fell off a building in a minecart. However, if you are falling towards water with a significant horizontal velocity, the game will have you "skip" on the water down to a soft landing without injury.

Carts appear to only eject their contents when they hit a wall with a significant horizontal velocity, i.e. the shotgun effect. It doesn't happen in the vertical drops that I have tested in fort mode.

For some reason one of my minecarts is dropping everything it carries on a certain ramp and then continuing onto its destination, the ramp is not a stop on any route, the minecart freely travels to the actual route every time. I have no idea why, the ramp is set up properly and all the track around it is as well, is there some maximum speed for going down ramps?

If it is ejecting the items from the cart, and it has not passed over a track stop set to dump, then it is likely hitting a wall with enough speed to shotgun its contents.

Di

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #559 on: June 24, 2012, 06:02:24 pm »

For some reason one of my minecarts is dropping everything it carries on a certain ramp and then continuing onto its destination, the ramp is not a stop on any route, the minecart freely travels to the actual route every time. I have no idea why, the ramp is set up properly and all the track around it is as well, is there some maximum speed for going down ramps?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anybody have an idea what might have happened?
I guess I have somewhat mentioned this in some of my posts or maybe not. Carts can get airborne if they accelerate enough, then they hit a wall in front of them, lower their velocity and continue along the track.
The critical speed depends on their mass, I've had galena filled minecart go down 10 levels without a problem, but a cart loaded with a couple of sand bags required speed breakers every 7 levels or so.
Also, Laserhead, shouldn't the setup be like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
?
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Bobnova

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #560 on: June 26, 2012, 08:34:39 pm »

My question (that I hope hasn't been answered, I've read an awful lot of this thread) is, how fast do the minecarts have to be going to do the shotgun?
I've tried a dozen or so Z levels of ramps, no dice.
Max length roller running at high speed plus two Z levels. No dice.
Am I missing something? Do I just need to have even longer ramps and/or rollers?

Am I messing the ramps up (if the channeling and resulting track are from left to right, you want to build West ramps right?)?
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Xenos

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #561 on: June 26, 2012, 09:15:42 pm »

My question (that I hope hasn't been answered, I've read an awful lot of this thread) is, how fast do the minecarts have to be going to do the shotgun?
I've tried a dozen or so Z levels of ramps, no dice.
Max length roller running at high speed plus two Z levels. No dice.
Am I missing something? Do I just need to have even longer ramps and/or rollers?

Am I messing the ramps up (if the channeling and resulting track are from left to right, you want to build West ramps right?)?
IIRC 3 z-levels will get you enough to shotgun, how is your trigger setup? (The wall)
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This is a useful feature..and this is DF.. so im gonna assume its bugged
That's what cages and minecart shotguns are for!  We don't need to control them.  We just need to aim them.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #562 on: June 26, 2012, 09:17:30 pm »

I'm trying to create a system to make minecarts fall down a shaft. If they fly into a wall, do they spill their contents? And if they land on a track stop that's sent to dump, will they dump?
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Bobnova

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #563 on: June 26, 2012, 10:31:19 pm »

My question (that I hope hasn't been answered, I've read an awful lot of this thread) is, how fast do the minecarts have to be going to do the shotgun?
I've tried a dozen or so Z levels of ramps, no dice.
Max length roller running at high speed plus two Z levels. No dice.
Am I missing something? Do I just need to have even longer ramps and/or rollers?

Am I messing the ramps up (if the channeling and resulting track are from left to right, you want to build West ramps right?)?
IIRC 3 z-levels will get you enough to shotgun, how is your trigger setup? (The wall)

It's, well, a wall. At the end of the tracks, the tracks lead straight into it.
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darkrider2

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #564 on: June 26, 2012, 10:38:18 pm »

If you use the shotgun affect to launch things into a one tile area with a channel that goes straight down for many levels. Would that be an effective way of quantum piling to lower levels?
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Xenos

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #565 on: June 27, 2012, 08:30:26 am »

If you use the shotgun affect to launch things into a one tile area with a channel that goes straight down for many levels. Would that be an effective way of quantum piling to lower levels?
You could just use a track stop that dumps down a channel rather than try and shotgun materials.
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This is a useful feature..and this is DF.. so im gonna assume its bugged
That's what cages and minecart shotguns are for!  We don't need to control them.  We just need to aim them.
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San-A

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #566 on: June 28, 2012, 04:33:25 am »

I am planning to build a track to travel between z-levels. I was wondering if this would work:
(viewed from above)
Code: [Select]
wu  z=0
wd
-----------
ww  z=-1
du
-----------
dw  z=-2
uw
-----------
ud  z=-3
ww
-----------
etc. where u = up ramp, d = down ramp, w=wall.

Also I would like to set the cart to 'ride' when travelling down. As I am planning to do this on
100 z-levels, what can I do to prevent funny unfortunate accident?

« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 05:03:39 am by San-A »
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Di

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #567 on: June 28, 2012, 06:46:43 am »

Also I would like to set the cart to 'ride' when travelling down. As I am planning to do this on
100 z-levels, what can I do to prevent funny unfortunate accident?
Place track stop at the end and hope cart is too heavy to get airborne.
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San-A

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #568 on: June 28, 2012, 07:55:50 am »

Also is the track design  OK, ie each tile will be connected properly?
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Triaxx2

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #569 on: June 28, 2012, 11:22:33 am »

I've finally gotten my dwarves all moving in the same line now. Every level of mining now has it's own stockpile linked to a mine cart rising to one of the super stockpiles, which link to more carts, rising to the stockpiles.

Now I've figured out how to auto cast obsidian. Two tracks of mine carts. One track runs down to the magma sea, into a small area where magma is pumped up out of a pipe into a reservoir where magma is kept at 7/7 via pressure plates. This fills the carts, and sends them back to the top. It's more power efficient and more frame rate friendly than a pump stack. At the top the cart dumps it's load into one of two channels. They're cut two levels down, so there's no spill over. The other track goes up, through a reservoir pumped up from the ocean. That goes down and dumps it's water load into one of the magma channels or the other. Instant obsidian.

Of course I intend to expand it so I can make bigger casts without having to deal with pump stacks. It'll be more complex. At least four tracks for each area, so the magma and water don't dry out. Possibly with alternate dump zones so that they only dump when they reach 7/7.
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