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Author Topic: The "How Does Minecart" Thread  (Read 225125 times)

Rafal99

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #465 on: June 04, 2012, 12:06:22 am »

So how do minecarts interact with traps (weapon, stonefall, etc?) laid on the trackway?

They don't.
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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #466 on: June 04, 2012, 12:38:31 am »

any sort of on-crash interactions?
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Marsunpaistii

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #467 on: June 04, 2012, 12:07:58 pm »

Is it possible to make carts go uphill while loaded without using power aka. being pushed by dwarves? I tried to make a testing setup where 2 z levels down is a wood stockpile and a stop to fill the cart, and 2 z levels up from there is another stop to dump the wood. It worked fine except that instead of pushing the cart up 2 z levels, a dwarf carried the cart full of wood 2z levels up and rode the cart back down, which I intended to do in the first place. But how do I get the dwarves to push the cart up instead of carrying it?
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Maxmurder

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #468 on: June 04, 2012, 12:11:48 pm »

IIRC setting a minecart to ride will have a dwarf move the cart up ramps while staying on the tracks.

Push = no need for darf.
Ride = no need for power.
Guide = no need for tracks.
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khearn

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #469 on: June 04, 2012, 12:48:08 pm »

I've had dwarves guide carts up tracks for about 100 z-levels. You do need to make sure you get the tracks fully connected. When engraving tracks on ramps, you need to designate past the uphill side of the ramp in order to get the track carved both directions. If you end the designation on the ramp, the tracks will only connect on the downhill side. All of my ramps had straight track, and I've read of people having problems getting a turn on a ramp to work.

So use 'k' to examine every ramp and make sure is says EW or NS, and not just E, W, N or S, and also not NE NW SE or SW. You might have ramps that connect downward, but not upward.
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Triskelli

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #470 on: June 04, 2012, 03:12:52 pm »

Has anyone created any minecart computing components yet?
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TerryDactyl

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #471 on: June 04, 2012, 04:02:55 pm »

Yes. See above for some discussion on cart-based power convertors. Computation is performed as usual, with mechanical logic. At present, the most efficient converter uses a 2x2 track loop with a 'hook', a roller and a plate. It costs 7 power, a rope, a cart, and 3 gears, plus additional gears for attached components. Check the wiki (under mechanical logic:talk) for alternate designs.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3315793#msg3315793

UristMcDwarf

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #472 on: June 04, 2012, 04:49:33 pm »

I've read about how mine-carts can skip on water and create mist. What if a dwarf was riding a water skipping cart, would the mist give them a happy thought, or would it sink and they die?
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Triskelli

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #473 on: June 04, 2012, 04:59:09 pm »

Yes. See above for some discussion on cart-based power convertors. Computation is performed as usual, with mechanical logic. At present, the most efficient converter uses a 2x2 track loop with a 'hook', a roller and a plate. It costs 7 power, a rope, a cart, and 3 gears, plus additional gears for attached components. Check the wiki (under mechanical logic:talk) for alternate designs.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3315793#msg3315793

So no minecart logic gates have been designed yet?
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TerryDactyl

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #474 on: June 04, 2012, 05:38:57 pm »

Yes. See above for some discussion on cart-based power convertors. Computation is performed as usual, with mechanical logic. At present, the most efficient converter uses a 2x2 track loop with a 'hook', a roller and a plate. It costs 7 power, a rope, a cart, and 3 gears, plus additional gears for attached components. Check the wiki (under mechanical logic:talk) for alternate designs.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3315793#msg3315793

So no minecart logic gates have been designed yet?

What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish, which can't already be done (more efficiently) by mechanical logic?

EvilTwin

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #475 on: June 04, 2012, 05:42:27 pm »

I've read about how mine-carts can skip on water and create mist. What if a dwarf was riding a water skipping cart, would the mist give them a happy thought, or would it sink and they die?

If the cart is fast enough, it won't sink. I don't know whether the dwarf would get a happy thought though.
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Triskelli

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #476 on: June 04, 2012, 06:58:36 pm »

What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish, which can't already be done (more efficiently) by mechanical logic?

Nothing that specifically needed minecart gates, I was just curious if there were any developed, and if they had any benefits.
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Rafal99

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #477 on: June 04, 2012, 07:24:07 pm »

I need your help guys.

I have this setup: (side view)
Code: [Select]
HS===
.
^


Where:
^    quantum stockpile of stuff, has pressure plate set to be activated by citizens
.    empty space
H    hatch cover
S=== minecart track with track stop that dump contents into the hatch

And the question is what sort of logic / mechanics should I add between the pressure plate and hatch cover to ensure that contents of the minecart never drop on a dwarf's head.


I was thinking about a simple NOT gate but the issue is that the hatch cover will close 100 steps after dwarf enters the pressure plate and this is enough time for an accident.

I was also thinking about installing two hatch covers - one above another, in such a way that when one opens then other closes. The bottom one would open and drop stuff when the plate sends off signal. The problem is again with the fact that NOT gate would sends open signal immediately while CLOSE signal is sent after 100 frame, so for 100 frames both hatches would be open, and again accidents will happen.

So I am thinking and thinking and can't think of a good design.
I already lost my best Mason when 15 stacks of prepared food dropped on him, don't want it to repeat...

Any ideas?


« Last Edit: June 04, 2012, 07:27:25 pm by Rafal99 »
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #478 on: June 04, 2012, 08:43:43 pm »

Cartsponges:
Minecarts placed in 7/7 or 6/7 fluid (magma or water) will remove 1/7 or 2/7 fluid from the tile, creating fluid [833] in the cart. Carts placed in 5/7 or less fluid won't fill up with fluid.

Carts placed on the bottom of a multi-z-level body of water or magma will soak up some of the contents and potentially lower the surface height. A quantum stockpile of 100 empty minecarts could soak up 14-28 tiles of 7/7 fluid on the z-levels above. Presumably a modded cart with an absurdly large volume could drain larger amounts.

Dwarves won't drown if the height of water is reduced to 5/7.

Quantum Fluid Generators:

If a cart passes through a 7/7 fluid tile and leaves it as 6/7, then later dumps 2/7 fluid on top of that tile, you have created 1/7 fluid due to a rounding error or something. This could be mechanized to create magma generators based on carts driving in circles at high speeds. The design would have to prevent 1/7 fluid spots from evaporating.

If the cart instead leaves the tile as 5/7, then it will be refilled to 7/7 later, and you have net zero.

This could be used to make an above-ground structure (such as a floating fortress) have the ability to shoot magma from refilling storage tanks without having to build a pump stack. The "original" magma can be brought up by minecart.

TerryDactyl

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Re: The "How Does Minecart" Thread
« Reply #479 on: June 04, 2012, 09:54:50 pm »

the question is what sort of logic / mechanics should I add between the pressure plate and hatch cover to ensure that contents of the minecart never drop on a dwarf's head.

Any ideas?

Welcome to the discussion. There has been some suggestion towards a room which only ever allows one dwarf its use, which employs a one-way pathing system... but... short of that, I'm not sure a solution has yet been discovered for the 100-tick problem. It's either a matter of a bridge's delay or that of a NOT gate's plate. Page #21.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=109460.msg3297088#msg3297088

Presumably a modded cart with an absurdly large volume could drain larger amounts.

Quantum Fluid Generators:

This could be mechanized to create magma generators based on carts driving in circles at high speeds.

...refilling storage tanks...

I can hardly wait until your publish your fortress maps. It is sure to make good reading. :)
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