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Author Topic: Traps now block wagon access  (Read 11279 times)

khearn

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Traps now block wagon access
« on: May 14, 2012, 06:21:43 pm »

I just made an interesting discovery in 34.08. Not sure if it's a bug or intentional. Cage traps seem to block wagon access now. I had a trade depot built like this:
Code: [Select]
top view
==XXXXXXX     = Stockpile (inside fort)
==XXXXXXX     X Soil wall
==XO   OX     . Floor
==.     X     O Depot
==.  O  X     ^ Cage trap
==X     X     ╔═╗ Bridge
==XO   OX     ╚═╝
==XX^^^XX
==XX^^^XX
XXXX╔═╗XX
XXXX╚═╝XX
XXX......
.........
XXX......
When I hit 'D' to check depot access, it would show the depot as inaccessible, with no green squares at all. Usually you get green tiles leading to whatever is blocking access, but I was getting nothing at all but the center of the Depot showing up as yellow on green 'D' meaning "Inaccessible Depot".
Code: [Select]
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXDDDXX
XXDDDXX
XXDDDXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX

So I removed the top 3 cage traps, and now I had one more yellow on green 'D', where the cage traps were.
Code: [Select]
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXDDDXX
XXDDDXX
XXDDDXX
XXXDXXX
XXXXXXX

So it appears that cage traps block wagon access to depots now.
I'm going to try out some weapon traps and see if they also block access.

Not being able to put traps on the path to our depots will cause a lot of changes to the way many of us build forts. I don't know if this is a bug, or if Toady did this intentionally to add more challenge. It will certainly do that, whether it's a bug or not.

I'm running 0.34.08 on linux, if it matters.

Edit: I removed the second row of cage traps and now have an accessible depot.

Second edit: I added a weapon trap with a single silver battle axe, and it blocks access. So weapon traps also block it. Shit just got real.

Third edit: Pressure plates and stone fall traps also block access. I can't try upright spear/spike traps right now, since I don't have any spears or spikes. But I'd be willing to bet they block access, too.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 06:29:40 pm by khearn »
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the_game_hunt

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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2012, 06:31:13 pm »

Yeah, they block wagons but not movements. WEIRD!!!
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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2012, 06:32:12 pm »

Traps confirmed to all reside on the cavern floor. Ceiling designs, pocket universes and levitating invisible ropes : Less likely to be the case.

Or maybe Wagons just levitate. We'll never know.

Maxmurder

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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2012, 06:34:33 pm »

Wow... most of us are prolly going to have to rethink our entrance designs. However i usually have a long route for wagons and civvies and some short weapon/cage/dodge trap entrance for gobbos. So this prolly wont affect designs to much...
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Sutremaine

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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 07:03:03 pm »

Pretty easy to get around, although it will require more traps and more space.

Code: [Select]
#####################
#+++++++^+++++++^+++#
#+++++++^+++++++^+++#
#+++++++^+++++++^+++#
++++^+++^+++^+++^++++
++++^+++^+++^+++^++++
++++^+++^+++^+++^++++
#+++^+++++++^+++++++#
#+++^+++++++^+++++++#
#+++^+++++++^+++++++#
#####################

That's a pretty inefficient design, but it should get the point across (unless enemies now have ways of avoiding traps by learning, as happened in earlier versions when diplomats would report trap positions).

Another option is to utilise a path that moves up and down across levels as well as more directly between depot and edge. The shorter path has sections inaccessible to wagons, and these are trapped.
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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 07:03:34 pm »

What about pressure plates?
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Naryar

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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 07:06:20 pm »

Time to make trade depots in the outer yard, protected by wall and moat and drawbridge.

khearn

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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2012, 07:28:07 pm »

What about pressure plates?

Yup, them too.
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nopil3os

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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2012, 07:32:08 pm »

are you guys using new forts? because i currently play a save that i startet at 34.05 or so and it does still have wagon access to the depot behind a trap-filled 3-wide entrance tunnel...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 07:41:09 pm by nopil3os »
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rtg593

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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2012, 07:49:37 pm »

Hmm... I usually do a 150 step wagon entrance and a 120 step trap entrance, both next to each other, trap entrance leading deeper into the fort. I actually haven't put traps in the wagon entrance in some time, just a raising bridge just in front of the depot... With a 1 tile space, because any time I've raised a bridge touching the Depot, they immediately pack up and try to leave.

But this is interesting, indeed.
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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2012, 08:11:38 pm »

Just make your depot access an airlock system. 

As in, it's a chamber with drawbridges on either side.  The drawbridge to the outside is down most of the time, and the drawbridge to your fort is up.  In this configuration, there is no pathing from the depot to the rest of your fort without going out and around to the main siege-prepared entrance. 

When a caravan comes, it paths to your depot, not your siege entrance.  If a siege or ambush or whatever comes, it paths for your dining hall, so it goes through the siege entrance because the depot entrance is blocked past the depot. 

Just flip the lever that opens the path from your fort to your depot while shutting off the exit when the caravan is in the depot.  Flip it again when you're done trading, and the merchants are ready to leave. 
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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2012, 09:04:13 pm »

My 34.07 fort upgraded to 34.08 with traps built before upgrade does not block entry to wagons.
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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2012, 07:49:46 am »

What happens if you deconstruct those traps and put them back exactly where they were?
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slink

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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2012, 07:53:15 am »

Pretty easy to get around, although it will require more traps and more space.

Code: [Select]
#####################
#+++++++^+++++++^+++#
#+++++++^+++++++^+++#
#+++++++^+++++++^+++#
++++^+++^+++^+++^++++
++++^+++^+++^+++^++++
++++^+++^+++^+++^++++
#+++^+++++++^+++++++#
#+++^+++++++^+++++++#
#+++^+++++++^+++++++#
#####################

That's a pretty inefficient design, but it should get the point across (unless enemies now have ways of avoiding traps by learning, as happened in earlier versions when diplomats would report trap positions).

Another option is to utilise a path that moves up and down across levels as well as more directly between depot and edge. The shorter path has sections inaccessible to wagons, and these are trapped.
Enemies avoid traps by walking where they are not, no learning required.  In earlier 34.x versions, when I did not have all three traps in a line across my 3-tile-wide corridor completed yet, enemies would all walk on the tile without the trap.

Edit:  And if this is an intentional change, it is a complete disaster for my fortress designs.  A mine-field has been the mainstay of my defense for four real-life years now.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 07:55:47 am by slink »
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Re: Traps now block wagon access
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2012, 08:28:48 am »

What happens if you deconstruct those traps and put them back exactly where they were?
OP mentioned in "Second edit:" that he "added a weapon trap with a single silver battle axe, and it blocks access.", so unless WTs behave differently from the CTs that he had had to remove in the first place I take that as meaning they would.

(In his setup.  The fact that there are others without this might mean other factors are at work...)
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