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[Uristocrat]

Some people have noted that the trees in game are a bit... simplistic.  I mean, we only have one kind of oak, ash, etc. when IRL there are many.  And some trees that sound pretty dwarfy, like ironwood, aren't in game at all.  So my proposal is that we start figuring out how to break it down.  Which oaks, ashes, etc. are relatively representative of their families and what are their scientific names?  What biomes should they occur in?  What color is the wood, and what density does it have?

The idea here is to come up with a list of IRL species of tree that best represent what can be found in nature, then create a "treealism" (heh) mod based on that data.  I don't want to include every single IRL tree, but to try and find representatives that best capture the diversity.  For example, we might pick just red oaks and white oaks.  I personally want to find trees that are either highly unique (e.g. ironwood), or representative of a large class of IRL trees (e.g. red & white oaks).

To start discussion, here's the table with current tree data with a couple of modifications based on new research people came up with.  I hope to modify it with further research, but I will be pressed for time for the next several weeks, so please add your research to the thread and I'll catch up on it when I can.

If you want to propose a new tree, please give me the scientific name, any data you can find on the tree (wikipedia, Forest Service data, etc.) and the rationale for including it / breaking it apart from the current families of tree (e.g. breaking oak in to red & white oak... or maybe we should add some of the other oaks, too...).

Wood Data

Tree	Density (kg/m3)	Species Used as Basis	Source
Mangrove	830	Black mangrove (Avicennia spp.)	US Forest Service
Saguaro	430	Carnegiea gigantea	(Determined empirically)
Pine	510	Red Pine (Pinus resinosa)	US Forest Service
Cedar	570	Lebanon Cedar (Cedrus libani)	TechnologyStudent.com
Oak	700	Encino Oak (Quercus spp.)	US Forest Service
Mahogany	600	African Mahogany (Khaya grandifoliola & K. senegalensis)	US Forest Service
Acacia	600	Acacia mollissima syn. A. mearnsii	US Forest Service
Kapok	260	Cieba pentandra	US Forest Service
Maple	540	Acer spp.	US Forest Service
Willow	390	Black willow (Salix nigra)	US Forest Service
Larch	590	Western Larch (Larix occidentalis)	US Forest Service
Chestnut	430	American Chestnut (Castanea dentata)	US Forest Service
Alder	450	Red Alder (Alnus rubra)	AHEC
Birch	650	American Birch (Betula spp.)	US Forest Service
Ash	600	Fraxinus spp.	US Forest Service
Candlenut	140	Aleurites moluccana	The Wood Explorer
Mango	520	Mangifera spp.	US Forest Service
Rubber	490	Hevea brasiliensis	US Forest Service
Cacao	430	Theobroma cacao	Inpa.Gov.BR
Palm	680	Red Palm (Cocos nucifera)	Wood Database

[Bytyan]

Hura crepitans- Common names sandbox tree, monkey-no-climb, dynamite tree. Notable for exploding fruit that could keep dwarves awake and rouse the superstitious to a frenzy. Also, fruits are a component of some hallucinogenic drinks.
Tropical. density between 240 to 448 kg/m3 when dry.
http://www.woodworkdetails.com/knowledge/wood/species/imported-hardwood/hura

[jimi12]

I would suggest adding the major fruit trees in addition to some under represented tree families.

Here are a few from wikipedia:

-Ginko          Ginko Biloba             Produces nuts which are eaten in Asia. Too many are poisionous. Trees are male or female. Traditional medicinal uses. Can grow up to 35m.

-Yew           Taxus Baccata (European Yew)         670 kg/m3. Famous for springy wood used in bows. Most parts are lethally poisonous to humans, livestock, especially horses. Traditional medicinal uses. Can grow up to 40m.

-Walnut        Juglans Regia (Common Walnut)        570 kg/m3. Heavily cultivated for walnuts, luxury wood. Can grow up to 35m.

-Yucca         Yucca Brevifolia         Produces edible fruit. Native to deserts (Not many desert trees right now). Grows up to 15m.



Also, this site has a ton of wood densities: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood-density-d_40.html

[NW_Kohaku]

Yeah, I have to say that unless we're adding something *new*, there's no real reason to have more different kinds of trees, or we start having the same problem we have with animal leather types, where there are 500 different types of leather, but they all have the same exact game function. 

We need to have a way for these trees to actually be different in a way that matters before we worry about expanding out into more. 

Hallucinogenic fruit trees that have exploding fruit are a start, of course, but I'm thinking more along the lines of why I made the Alchemical Property Token thread, where each type of wood has some sort of difference that matters when you chemically alter them (such as by burning them into charcoal, and then making that charcoal have different properties that change the metal they are worked with, etc.)

[jimi12]

Yeah, I have to say that unless we're adding something *new*, there's no real reason to have more different kinds of trees, or we start having the same problem we have with animal leather types, where there are 500 different types of leather, but they all have the same exact game function.

You understand we are talking about Dwarf Fortress, right? Needless complexity is one of the core values of the game.

[Andeerz]

I suggest Guaiacum officinale and Guaiacum sanctum which are sources of lignum vitae, among the most dense of all woods (it sinks in water!).

Also... I'd love to see this thread readily link to and give an honorable mention to the multi-tile tree idea, because, come on, it would be awesome!!!

[CaptApollo12]

I don't mean to troll or bash your idea, but would'nt this slow the game down more? I can understand the use of leather having its origin from the animal it came from. This is because you can assign leoperd capes as a uniform. The only reason I would want this would be to make beds all one kind for flavour, but I would rather just have "Wood Bed". What I would want out of my trees would be a different appearance depending on the biome. (Palm, Evergreem, etc) but yeild vanilla "wood". This would still be true after toady does multi tile trees. Of coarse there are options for me, as I play Masterwork mod (eliminating the fluff I choose, adding fluff I want) And there is no reason why I would want to stop you. So if you wanted a bunch of different trees, go for it. For a awesome outcome to make you satisfied consider the end product of what you want, detailed, but do it in the mod forum. Ask for help, Im sure you will find some and learn a lot.

[LibidoMax]

We don't need anymore needless complexity that's not going to give a useful function. Just edit your raws if you want more types of trees

[King Mir]

Since multi-tile trees are a soon coming feature according to Fortress Talk, it would be useful to collect information not just on density, but on how the trees grow. It would be cool having elf homes have different shapes depending on the biome.

[Nyan Thousand]

Well, there's the Narra (I'm using Pterocarpus indicus to be representative of all Pterocarpus, 35 species in all), it's common in SE Asia and it's the national tree of the Philippines. This site lists its density as ranging from .55 to .9 g/cm^3, which I'm averaging to .725 g/cm^3 (725 kg/m^3)

Also, balsa wood (Ochroma pyramidale). According here, cultivated trees have a higher density of 160. Wild trees would presumably have lower densities. Balsa trees can grow up to 30m and are native to Brazil and Mexico.

[bluea]

Beyond just revising key stats, I'm thinking there's a lot of other info that -will- need collecting.

1) Maximum Height.
2) Diameter
3) Density
4) Strength - strong direction.
5) Strength - weak direction.
6) Color
7) Propagation: (Seed, suckers, roots, 'branch-down', etc.)
Time to sapling, time to mature, time to die.
9) And, the crucial one, ignition temperature

[Ubiq]

It's a work in progress, but here are some trees I added.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6321

[helmacon]

I think that if we are going to work on trees then we should add features before diversity.

I mean things like birds nests and wood ants. This would make trees a lot more real than 5000 more tree types that do the exact same thing.

[Nyan Thousand]

Personally, if we're going for realistic trees, as with stone, we should go all out already. I know we have the manpower to do this. So, I ask you guys, besides realistic wood and stone values, what else do we need? Realistic... leather? Are flash points and melting points accurate? (I'm guessing they are now for stones and ores)

My point is, and I'm guessing Uristocrat has this in mind, is that if we're going for realistic material properties, let's get this done in one go.

[King Mir]

I think that if we are going to work on trees then we should add features before diversity.

I mean things like birds nests and wood ants. This would make trees a lot more real than 5000 more tree types that do the exact same thing.

Currently the no. 1 planned feature for trees is multi-tile trees with elves living in them.