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[Corai]

Life has existed for eons before we gen, as it is year one of CIVILIZATION.


Life existed BEFORE civilization, thus allowing it to form these things. Armok just decided he didnt want oil so he set it on fire and let it burn out.

[NW_Kohaku]

Don't you guys seriously remember Toady saying that he wants to keep DF's tech pre-1400? Oil makes absolutely no sense in the game anyway.
Also, the way I see it, the year 1 of the worldgen is just world 1 for civs, the rest of the world was happy and living.

While I definitely don't think Dwarf Fortress needs Polyethylene production and matching recycling plants, things like oil or gas existed in the ground before the 1400s, so if you excavate large areas underground, you're going to hit them.

The reason why you took canaries into the coal mines is because those mines (even the ancient ones) had dangerous coal dust explosions, or pockets of gasses like methane that would explode from the flames of the torches and lanterns miners carried.

Things like natural gas, in fact, were and are used simply by transferring them by pipe and burning them.  Dwarves have the technology to make pipes and to burn things, so burning natural gas pockets if and when we ever need lanterns or heating for personal homes by setting up pipes to pockets of gas would be perfectly reasonable for the technology that the dwarves already use. 

Without going to search for when natural gas was first used for heating and lighting, I don't think it actually happened until the industrial revolution actually made humanity exploit coal deposits more heavily, but that's the thing - dwarves are already in the coal mines, and are already building their houses quite close to the sources of flammable gasses, so it should be technologically less of a leap for them. 

Gasoline, meanwhile, I would think should be best relegated to the "Greek Fire" or "flamethrower" ideas, and definitely not the Internal Combustion Engine.

[loose nut]

Subterranean oil or asphalt deposits would definitely be interesting, even if they'd primarily serve as an obstacle for digging dwarves, and, once tamed, a trap/moat component. They absolutely should find their way into the game at some point.

[Sadrice]

And they start at year 1 with every type of stone creatable existant in the layers of terrain, even though most metal ores and stones take millions of years of compression under the earth to become what we know them as. So it's not farfetched to think that oil pockets should exist.

Except that oil = requires life.
Life = Has only existed for a year or so.
Dorfs = Got no oil

Except we already have fossil fuels in the form of coal.

[DG]

How would people want below surface oil to be modelled? When I think oil I think large areas, so are we thinking a large swathe that would encompasse most embark sizes that people commonly use and up to a few z levels deep, sort of like an aquifier? Or maybe something more the size of a large ore deposit? Is buried oil always pressurized so that when you hit it it spouts out like on tv?

[Loud Whispers]

This thread makes me happy on the level of ecstatic.

How would people want below surface oil to be modelled? When I think oil I think large areas, so are we thinking a large swathe that would encompasse most embark sizes that people commonly use and up to a few z levels deep, sort of like an aquifier? Or maybe something more the size of a large ore deposit? Is buried oil always pressurized so that when you hit it it spouts out like on tv?

Now that would certainly be deadly... I could imagine it being a cavern feature though.

[NW_Kohaku]

How would people want below surface oil to be modelled? When I think oil I think large areas, so are we thinking a large swathe that would encompasse most embark sizes that people commonly use and up to a few z levels deep, sort of like an aquifier? Or maybe something more the size of a large ore deposit? Is buried oil always pressurized so that when you hit it it spouts out like on tv?

Yeah, I'd imagine it more like a large ore vein, especially when we get 3d ore veins.  (Or rather, one of those giant splotches of ore like how microcline works, but 3d.)

You could have gas "veins" that form inside of shale layers, for example, and when you're digging around, if you aren't careful, you could tap into a natural gas pocket that might explode if you're unlucky, or otherwise contaminate the air.  If you can't seal it off, it continues spreading constantly until it's unpressurized and starts dissipating when it is in contact with enough normal air. 

If you can tap it, though, by sending pipes into the pocket, you can use it as a fuel source. 

For liquid crude oil, it probably should be pretty pressurized if it's underneath a large amount of stone.  You could probably set a pressurization count at embark, based upon how much stone is weighing down on it.  If you tap it without releasing that pressure, it all just explodes outwards.  If you got some interesting cave-in mechanics going, you could have the cave start to collapse down on the emptying pockets of crude oil.

[ComradeGafarov]

DELICIOUS OIL.

[Loud Whispers]

You could have gas "veins" that form inside of shale layers, for example, and when you're digging around, if you aren't careful, you could tap into a natural gas pocket that might explode if you're unlucky, or otherwise contaminate the air.  If you can't seal it off, it continues spreading constantly until it's unpressurized and starts dissipating when it is in contact with enough normal air. 

Miasmaaaaaaaaaaaa

[NW_Kohaku]

You could have gas "veins" that form inside of shale layers, for example, and when you're digging around, if you aren't careful, you could tap into a natural gas pocket that might explode if you're unlucky, or otherwise contaminate the air.  If you can't seal it off, it continues spreading constantly until it's unpressurized and starts dissipating when it is in contact with enough normal air. 

Miasmaaaaaaaaaaaa

Well, I've been hoping for a more complex "ventilation" system to be put in place for a while, now. 

If we have different types of air qualities, we can have need of ventilation works, especially for places like kilns inside of caves, or walkways right next to magma vents. 

This could be vents (which might include ways for enemy creatures to crawl or fly through the vents) or else possible farmable oxygen-producing (or air-cleaning, depending on if it's getting rid of impurities) plants or wall lichens. 

[glopso]

Current pressure system wouldn't work for oil, as it isn't real pressure.
This would be a better system:

Certain types of rock may have a [POROUS] tag on them, and can hold a new "oil" fluid in the same tile as the rock. So basically, oil could flow around in certain types of rock.

Oil, and possibly other liquids, would in addition to the 7/7 level system have an invisible pressure counter per tile of oil. Each unit would count as one 1/7 tile of that fluid.

These extra units will path through the oil to "unoccupied" spaces (Porous rock or not occupied by material), and add 1/7 oil to the tile.

The units could also path to 7/7 oil spaces, as long as there are no "clear" spaces to path to, and the destination has a lower pressure counter. Doing this would add to the pressure counter of the destination tile.

Units can path in any direction, even above the tile it's pathing from. This would allow oil to shoot or bubble up when struck from above.

I know this seems impractical and would require many extra calculations to be done each frame, since it's basically an expanded version of the normal fluid system, just with more capacity (and thus, more potential for moving liquids). I'm just putting it out there, in case it can be optimized to the point that it doesn't cause massive lag

[NW_Kohaku]

I didn't mean the current pressure system, since that is meant to model only hydrostatic pressure.  Rather, I'm just thinking of a simpler and more "gamey" system, where there are "extra" units of oil or gas that will start spurting outward that count as hidden pressurized amounts of that oil or gas until all the "extra" tiles have been used up.  How much the oil will have been compressed and hence, how much "extra" oil there will be would be based upon the mass of stone that was lying on top of that oil when you embarked.

That way, it's not doing any serious calculations in-game except "is containment breached".  When you actually hit the pocket, it starts spewing out the extra tiles of oil until all the extra tiles are gone unless you can recontain the oil (in which case, the extra tiles are still kept contained until it is tapped or breached again).

[Mrhappyface]

It reminds me of this image:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And its DF parody

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Loud Whispers]

And its DF parody

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'll have to admit, my eyes burst with laughter.

[DG]

It reminds me of this image:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And its DF parody

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Awesome. Extra points for the turtle on the money.