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[Puzzlemaker]

You should also work on the assumption that at some point there will be hostiles in each bunker, be it a berserk dwarf or another unforseen issue.  The easiest way to hande it is to put traps in every bunker, so that if a dwarf goes berserk the traps will take him out.  This would also make extra workshops unnessesary; I say let them go insane.

I do like my round-robin idea, it solves a lot of issues.  However, the downside is that you would need a seperate track for each type of good going into a bunker, which could add up really fast.  Having one track per bunker that you just put all minecarts on would work as well, but it could clog up, and anything you do with it would have to be manually hauled.

What's your plan for handling the minecart logistics? I am curious.

[Miuramir]

...
Yeah, that's what it looks like I may do. A single roller on 'low' will jump a cart across a single tile pit and still make a turn immediately after it.

How about an "airlock pit"?  Side view:

#########
___ _ ___
__+^#^+__
#########

Top view, level Z:

#########
=== = ===
#########

Top view, level Z-1:

#########
  +^#^+ 
#########


From the cart perspective, it has a 1-tile pit to jump, a tile (or more if needed) of "middle" track, and another 1-tile pit.  The "middle" track has no way to be accessed by dwarves (or anything else that doesn't fly or jump), and should probably be all rollers.  Any dwarf, animal, etc. caught on the lead-in track will be knocked (or dodge) 1 level down into the pit, onto a pressure plate which opens a door leading back the way they came (into their home pod/burrow).  Hopefully, even in case of odd errors such as the cart ending in the pit or a dwarf breaking their legs, since the only place they can land is the pressure plate opening the door, someone will come collect the cart, rescue the dwarf, re-pasture the animal, etc.  Even in cases of a failure into the pit on each side somehow, the two sides are separated by solid wall at their level. 

Can you power rollers from "above"?  If so, this would be compatible with an above the ceiling power grid; Z+1 is mostly solid but has a gear any place you need power on Z, and Z+2 has axles strung as needed (quite possibly running above your cart tracks by default). 

[Trif]

Wow, this looks like a monumental project! Especially getting all the furniture to every bunker seems annoying, and defending the fort for 12 years with only 7 dwarfs doesn't sound very easy, too.

I'm looking for input on some of these skill efforts. Medical will the the worst. It's going to be tough repeatedly injuring (but not killing!) one of their children or each other, so that they can practice healing. Pressure plate spike trap? Intentional minecart accidents? What is both automated and sustainable and as humane as possible? Can this even be done?

As far as I know, there is no guaranteed non-fatal way to injure dwarfs. Children are even harder to keep alive, because they can't wear armor. It might be a good idea to experiment with minecart collisions, but I don't know of any ‼Science‼ there.

A question: What will you do about moods? If a hunter gets a crafting mood, will you let him die? Or relocate him? Or build the workshop in his sector?

[Martin]

defending the fort for 12 years with only 7 dwarfs doesn't sound very easy, too.

Actually, that's probably the easiest part of this. Build a long hallway and stick Morul in it. Done. Even without his armor, and even without the uberstrength that 40d offered dwarves, it should still be pretty tilted in his favor against ambushing gobbos. That'll change when fliers arrive later, and certain FBs. I should be able to keep swimmers out.

A question: What will you do about moods? If a hunter gets a crafting mood, will you let him die? Or relocate him? Or build the workshop in his sector?

I'm down to two things: let them die or anticipate the problem before the bunker is constructed. But I've ruled out 'build a workshop'. I'm leaning against 'let them die' because that seems to go against the story here as well. So, I'm looking at building a craft workshop before migrants move in, being careful about sorting the migrants - if your farmer has even dabbling mason, they'll demand the mason workshop, and distributing components around the bunkers either in advance or on-demand. That will again test the hauling system because every bunker will basically need a small stock of, well, everything. But if they sort badly or I can't work out the hauling, well, I guess I'm boned. The only problem profession is miner. They want a mason workshop, but their kids will want a craft. I need to think about that a touch. Miner has the whole obsidian mine so I may put two workshops in.


Once I get the fallback items modded in and working, I think I'll be set to go. I just need to determine whether a regen is needed.

[ragman le bon]

Martin is back! Love the idea and the dedication to attempt it. A more than fitting sequel for Morul.

[Vodrilus]

ptw

Also, it's amazing how you have the time, the energy and the sheer determination to take on these challenges. I feel like a casual gamer, compared to achievments like Morul (and this one, once it's reality).

[megahelmet]

How will you handle cleanup for the bunkers themselves? Individual magma pit to burn trash and corpses, then memorialize the dwarves? Or some kinda rail system that takes bodies to dwarves with the unofficial title of gravedigger?

[Martin]

Well, each bunker will have a tomb for the family. As for vermin and old clothes and stuff - I was thinking about an incinerator per bunker, but that's a lot of magma to move and at least one more z per layer to cover it. But it's easier to plan than the water. Given quarantine, an incinerator per bunker is the way to go. It's actually easier to plan than the water.

[Puzzlemaker]

You can do water via minecarts.

Speaking of minecarts, how are you planning to handle hauling and sorting?

[khearn]

You could have a central craft workshop that can be reached from any of the bunkers, but have the paths blocked normally, and just open the path that a moody dwarf needs. Then when he is done, you allow him to go back to his bunker and seal it off again. I don't think it's possible to have two moody dwarves at the same time, so just one craft shop should be enough.

You could also maintain a stockpile at that workshop with three or so of everything that might be needed in a mood. Even if a moody dwarf has another skill and claims a shop in his own bunker, you could open up the path from his bunker to the central "mood stockpile" to let him get there to get stuff he wants. So you wouldn't need to keep everything in each bunker.

This depends how just how isolated you want to keep your dwarves. It would never allow two dwarves from different bunkers to meet, but would allow them to be somewhere that someone from another bunker has been. But then, they'll all pass through the same receiving area, so I'm guessing this would be OK, too.

[Martin]

You can do water via minecarts.

I thought about that, but I'd like it more reliable. I think a full water system will be no larger than a water/minecart system, and I don't think you'd build a fortress like this without a proper water system.

Speaking of minecarts, how are you planning to handle hauling and sorting?

Somewhat dynamically. The 'prefer' system on hauling stops plus stockpile links plus the conditions on each stop look like it should work. In some cases I'm going to need two stops for a given bunker - booze for example. I expect that the brewer will load up the cart based on 'prefer' and send it out either when it's some % full or a given amount of time has passed (in case the cart is full of other crap). But the brewer also needs to get barrels back from all of the other bunkers, so right before that stop may need to be another stop (I think they can be together, but perhaps not) to take the empties out and stockpile them. I've going to have to rely to a large extent on the size of receiving stockpiles to regulate the flow of goods. If there's 100 bunkers and the brewer sends out a load of booze, the first guy in line can't have a stockpile that holds 100 booze or the guys later on won't get any. But if they stockpile too little, they may run out before the next lap. It's going to be an interesting balance of JIT hauling and stockpiling.


I'm testing running multiple carts per line now that Today has fixed that up. Cart collisions are the main concern. But just getting 2-3 carts on the really heavily used lines may be key. I expect a lot of fidgeting.

[Puzzlemaker]

You may be able to handle a lot of that automatically if you set up pressure plates correctly.  If I remember, you can sort a cart based on weight and have it dump itself automatically.  I don't remember if you can set pressure plates to trigger on weight of loose items, but if you can you could have it so there is a quantum stockpile, and when it gets low it snags a cart and makes it dump itself, if that makes sense.

May get too complicated though.

[Martin]

This depends how just how isolated you want to keep your dwarves. It would never allow two dwarves from different bunkers to meet, but would allow them to be somewhere that someone from another bunker has been. But then, they'll all pass through the same receiving area, so I'm guessing this would be OK, too.

Yeah, it would be okay. I'm avoiding 'magical' pathing solutions like forbidding doors, but levers are okay. The downside to the central space is that someone needs to pull some levers to make it work. So, maybe. It already needs a central space and a routing system to get migrants in, so that might just be the space for moods as well.

You may be able to handle a lot of that automatically if you set up pressure plates correctly.  If I remember, you can sort a cart based on weight and have it dump itself automatically.  I don't remember if you can set pressure plates to trigger on weight of loose items, but if you can you could have it so there is a quantum stockpile, and when it gets low it snags a cart and makes it dump itself, if that makes sense.

May get too complicated though.

Pressure plates only trigger on creatures, carts, water, magma. That's it. Good idea though - that's what I had in mind for bulky items like stone.

[Puzzlemaker]

You could have a buffer to stop multiple carts from getting too close to each other... have a long drop with rollers at the bottom that periodically go off.  That way the carts will stack, and if there are a lot of them close together it will seperate them out.

Handling carts being stuck back into the system could be handled that way too; you could have mini-buffers after each bunker.  Carts that have been used and put back into the system may collide with other carts, so instead of sticking them on the track you drop them from the top of the buffer (Higher then the "untouched" carts go).  That way you avoid all collisions, if that makes any sense.  Sorry, I am not good at explaining this stuff.

[khearn]

This depends how just how isolated you want to keep your dwarves. It would never allow two dwarves from different bunkers to meet, but would allow them to be somewhere that someone from another bunker has been. But then, they'll all pass through the same receiving area, so I'm guessing this would be OK, too.

Yeah, it would be okay. I'm avoiding 'magical' pathing solutions like forbidding doors, but levers are okay. The downside to the central space is that someone needs to pull some levers to make it work. So, maybe. It already needs a central space and a routing system to get migrants in, so that might just be the space for moods as well.

Yeah, there is some manual action to make it work. But it's not an everyday thing like distributing booze or clothes. Moods are out of the ordinary events, so it's not that bad to have to take manual actions for them. Kind of like sending Morul to the long hallway when a siege appears.