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Author Topic: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom Update 0.5.5: Let's do the Odyssey!  (Read 127745 times)

Pikdome

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.02)
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2012, 03:54:58 am »

Playing as shyguys is pretty interesting, one thing to note, when you select 'find anything' from the subcon door, it'll sometimes make block crafts like rings and amulets, these have no value, as the base material of blocks also have no value, you should probably take them out, as they just started accumulating after a while with no use and no where to go.

StephanReiken, thats only as long as the civs you trade with have metal or stone in the first place, so you are really dependent on who you settle near, which is kind of silly needing to rely on other races for metal, which your toad homeland traders sometimes bring anyways and yet you can't really get your own, its not like pickaxes would be a well kept secret thats impossible to duplicate.

Maybe you could make it so that the tools and weapons you make as toads would be inferior to what you could trade for, digging slower or chopping slower or something.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 04:00:25 am by Pikdome »
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.02)
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2012, 09:31:11 am »

The Toads were meant to be dependent on outside traders, pet Yoshis, and power-up foods, but perhaps I did take it a bit too far.  I started to have second thoughts when I realized that no stone also means no millstone, which means no flour or sugar, which means no cake mix, which means that you can't do the special cooking interactions that will play a major part in the Toad's wealth production and combat ability boosting.

If you do make sure to embark in an area with lots of nearby friendly civs, do they send traders?  I didn't have enough time to test if they actually would show up and bring the items they were supposed to.  The mole people in particular don't really have anything except mining equipment, so I figured they would always bring it.

Thing is, I don't want the Toads actually living underground, and when you can mine, underground fortresses are a lot easier to make than above-ground ones.  At any rate, I'll see what I can do about picking up the Toad's game.  Is there any way to make a pick that digs less effectively?

Do Yoshis eat from stockpiles?  I saw they got hungry and more-or-less assumed they would.  They are able to speak, which seems to be the deciding factor (and if they can't speak, they begin relentlessly devouring every nearby civ).  I'd rather them have a high upkeep and make them more useful than make them not require food - first off, I want to give them their own power-up foods like Yoshi Cookies, and second, they are the original big eaters, after all!  I'm going to be changing the Yoshis somewhat at any rate, since currently there's no way to 'milk' them for the extremely useful Yoshi-Ade and Red Essence (yes, Red Essence is made from Yoshis.  I checked.)

Thanks StephenReiken, I'll check out what I can use from your mod.  Though I should point out that I don't really like overdoing castes, especially for civilized races - just a stylistic choice, I prefer to vary them through equipment and upgrades instead.

Playing as shyguys is pretty interesting, one thing to note, when you select 'find anything' from the subcon door, it'll sometimes make block crafts like rings and amulets, these have no value, as the base material of blocks also have no value, you should probably take them out, as they just started accumulating after a while with no use and no where to go.

A good point.  That is why the 'Dump into Subspace' option is there, so that you could get rid of the accumulating objects that you had no use for, but perhaps including worthless crafts wasn't a good idea.

Koopas should also have a minor, peaceful civilization. As shown by Paper Mario where there was Koopa Village.

I played with this option a bit - I don't really like DF's system of babysnatchers vs. non-babysnatchers, it seems too rigid and I'd like to see civs of Toads and Koopas getting along peacefully on occasion.  While it would be possible to make multiple civs with the same creatures (I actually considered making three different Shyguy civs - regular, babysnatcher, and item thief - so that you could have them trading with everybody as well as stealing from everybody) I'm deciding against it, at least for now (Goombas and Bob-ombs have also been shown to have peaceful variants, and things could get confusing fast if everyone gets to play both sides of the fence).  Throughout most of the series, Koopas and their allies have been the bad guys, and since they're actually canon babysnatchers, I just split the races into two main groups (and Shyguys).  However, since Koopas and the other minor 'bad-guy' races aren't 100% evil in the way that goblins are, you'll often find them hanging around peacefully in Toad-civ cities in Adventure Mode.

EDIT: I fixed the Tanooki problem and put up the new download.  Don't know how that one got through.  I should probably start testing with the MW files alone instead of testing all of my mods in the same worlds at the same time :P

Pikdome

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.02)
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2012, 01:47:02 pm »

From what I've seen, yoshis do not eat or drink from stockpiles, which makes a decent incentive to stay near a water source lest your yoshis dehydrate, I've also seen them eat vermin to sate their hunger.

Yes, toads need some kind of less effective digging implement, I think it's possible, I seem to recall genesis mod having two kinds of axes for chopping wood, one being slower and smaller yet requiring less material, so unless I'm mistaken, I think it's possible for picks.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.03)
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2012, 03:42:53 pm »

All right, did a bit of modification.  Toads can now embark with small picks, but they don't seem to be any less effective than large ones (except in combat).  So I made them unable to gain skill in mining or engraving instead - they will never rise above 'dabbling', so carving out a massive underground fortress will take a lot longer than putting together a wooden one above-ground, especially in the deeper, hard-rock layers.  I also increased some of the power-up plant prices.  They probably still need adjustment though.

A strange thing happened during testing.  Shortly into the game, I got a 'megabeast' message indicating the arrival of a demon koopa.  However, this demon koopa was the master of a nearby goblin civ, and it was... friendly?  It would run around destroying buildings, but would not attack the Toads themselves.  To deal with the problem, I simply made a nice wooden building, stuck a nest box inside as bait, and then sealed off the entrance when the demon koopa went inside.  Has anyone else seen this kind of thing before?

StephanReiken

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.03)
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2012, 03:59:26 pm »

That does sound odd.

As I recall, currently the quality of the pick or the materials of the pick have no bearing whatsoever on mining speed or droprate.

So yea, capping Toad mining skill will make them incredibly slow at it instead. While you could make them learn mining slowly instead people playing as Toads could bypass that from Embark and the occasional migrant.

I casted a lot but I would consider making these castes in Koopas considering that most of the others can be considered derivatives of those secrets that you are using.

Caste Magikoopa, Koopas with magic in their blood who can easily learn many secrets. (Can secrets be limited to caste? I haven't modded recent versions)

Caste rare Royal Koopas. These Koopas come with spiked shells naturally and while they start as normal Koopa sizes they grow to much larger proportions. Bowser and the Koopalings would fit this Caste.

Just my two cents ^^.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.03)
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2012, 04:22:50 pm »

That does sound odd.

As I recall, currently the quality of the pick or the materials of the pick have no bearing whatsoever on mining speed or droprate.

So yea, capping Toad mining skill will make them incredibly slow at it instead. While you could make them learn mining slowly instead people playing as Toads could bypass that from Embark and the occasional migrant.

I casted a lot but I would consider making these castes in Koopas considering that most of the others can be considered derivatives of those secrets that you are using.

Caste Magikoopa, Koopas with magic in their blood who can easily learn many secrets. (Can secrets be limited to caste? I haven't modded recent versions)

Caste rare Royal Koopas. These Koopas come with spiked shells naturally and while they start as normal Koopa sizes they grow to much larger proportions. Bowser and the Koopalings would fit this Caste.

Just my two cents ^^.

Well, it's not technically capped so much as has such a slow learning rate and such a fast rust rate that their skill will generally wind up going backwards.  I'm not sure if you can build it up slowly by having them mine constantly, but in any event it's not really worth it.  Can skill levels even be capped?  I know attributes can, but I couldn't find anything on skills.

I originally had Royal Koopas as a caste, but it was disappointing to look through hundreds of figures in Legends mode to eventually find one, only to find that he became a fish cleaner or something.  The new system of having Demon Koopas that take over Koopa civilizations works a lot better, I think, especially because that seems to be what Bowser is intended to be.  As for Magikoopas, they'll go in somehow, but I'd rather make a workshop that trains them than have them be born with the ability.  The 'Polymorpher' secret is based on the vaguely-defined 'Koopa Magic' mentioned in a few games, but I'd expect they have a bit of necromancy and as well (where else do Dry Bones come from?).

StephanReiken

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.03)
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2012, 04:47:09 pm »

Aye, I can understand that reasoning.

Do you plan on having a Lakitu secret that gives a cloud and flight to a Koopa? (Particularly this, in addition to 'Super Koopa' would let you teach flight to your non-Para Koopas.)

I'd imagine that if its a bodypart thats required for flight but doesn't bleed or feel pain it would fit the role of a cloud quite well.


Spells for MagiKoopas
Flying Broomstick (Basic secret for Magikoopa to gain flight.)
Four Polygon Blast (The Poly Morph spell is usually shown dealing damage too, but might want to keep them separate)
20 Polygon Blast (Just a stronger variant. Might need Four first)

Magical Boost
Magic Shield
Invisiblast (Probably impossible to implement. Makes an ally invisible.)
Heal
Group Heal
Electrify (Hard to implement. Add a temporary bodypart that leaks by design, with a highly damaging fast acting syndrome?)
Magikopy (Makes four puesdo Magikoopa. Can a secret make new allied entities?)

Legendary Magic
Omega Growth (Yoshi's Island, causes target to grow to Megabeast proportions temporarily. Can it be done Temporarily?)
Omega Shrink
(I can't think of any other epic spells Magikoopa have used before)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 05:01:17 pm by StephanReiken »
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.03)
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2012, 01:25:55 am »

Aye, I can understand that reasoning.

Do you plan on having a Lakitu secret that gives a cloud and flight to a Koopa? (Particularly this, in addition to 'Super Koopa' would let you teach flight to your non-Para Koopas.)

I'd imagine that if its a bodypart thats required for flight but doesn't bleed or feel pain it would fit the role of a cloud quite well.


Spells for MagiKoopas
Flying Broomstick (Basic secret for Magikoopa to gain flight.)
Four Polygon Blast (The Poly Morph spell is usually shown dealing damage too, but might want to keep them separate)
20 Polygon Blast (Just a stronger variant. Might need Four first)

Magical Boost
Magic Shield
Invisiblast (Probably impossible to implement. Makes an ally invisible.)
Heal
Group Heal
Electrify (Hard to implement. Add a temporary bodypart that leaks by design, with a highly damaging fast acting syndrome?)
Magikopy (Makes four puesdo Magikoopa. Can a secret make new allied entities?)

Legendary Magic
Omega Growth (Yoshi's Island, causes target to grow to Megabeast proportions temporarily. Can it be done Temporarily?)
Omega Shrink
(I can't think of any other epic spells Magikoopa have used before)

These are some good ideas!

Unfortunately, there is no means of making a non-flying creature into a flying one without transforming it into another creature, which I try to avoid doing casually since it has a lot of odd properties connected to it (for instance, it is not possible to transform a creature if it is already transformed, and the transformation restores any lost body parts).  The 'Puff' creature was intended to be a flying mount for Koopas (does Lakitu's Cloud even have an independent species name?  I couldn't find one), so although you can't play as one, sometimes cloud-riding Koopas will attack your fort.  Currently Toads can use them too, but if I make them evil or underground, only Koopas will have them.  Making a smiley-face cloud classified as 'evil' seems wrong somehow, though...

Ironically, the 'basic flying secret' is one of the only two you mentioned that is impossible to implement (the other is Magikopy - it isn't possible to create new creatures, only transform existing ones).  Temporarily boosting stats and even size with magic is doable, and would make a good counterpart to the Toads' ability to boost their stats by eating power-ups.  True invisibility isn't possible, but it is possible to temporarily boost their hiding skill and give them the ability to hide even when an enemy can see them (the Boos have this ability naturally).  Electrifying through adding a body part isn't possible, but giving someone else the ability to transfer a syndrome by touch is.  Even so, I'd like to avoid overdoing it.  The Koopas are already the toughest of the civilized races, so unless I make an even stronger race that is either 'good' or one of the races that attacks everyone (which means Toads will also have to deal with them), Koopas have the advantage in sieges already.

I need new domestic creature and plant ideas.  Is there anything in the Mushroom Kingdom that looks like it can be sheared, spun or woven to make thread?  Something like cotton?  A woolly animal?  Any kind of unique mammalian creature?  Don't know... Also, is there anything that looks like it can give milk?

StephanReiken

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.03)
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2012, 04:05:10 am »

Of course there are!
Other Notes
See Paper Mario. Shroom Shakes and the like, many cooking recipies

Plants
Goomnut (Paper Mario)
Strange Leaf (Paper Mario)
Dried Fruit (Paper Mario) Comes from Dry Dry Desert
Iced Potato (Paper Mario)
Turtley Leaf (Paper Mario)
Horsetail (Paper Mario)
Keel Mango (Paper Mario)
Peachy Peach (Paper Mario)
Mild Cocoa Bean (Paper Mario)
Golden Leaf (Paper Mario)
Coconut (Paper Mario)
Square Apple (Paper Mario) Comes in many colors
Blue Berry (Paper Mario)
Bubble Berry (Paper Mario)
Heart Fruit (Yoshi's Story)
Bomberry (Yoshi's Story)
Melon (Yoshi's Story)
Grapes (Yoshi's Story)
Banana (Yoshi's Story)
Watermelon (Yoshi's Story)
Red/Green Pepper (Mario & Luigi)
Nut (Mario & Luigi)
Super Nut (Mario & Luigi)
Ultra Nut (Mario & Luigi)
Dash Pepper (Mario Galaxy) Speed Boost
Durian (Mario Sunshine)
Bean Fruit (Mario & Luigi) Some kind of Beanbean apple
Woo/Hoo//Chuckle/Hee Bean (Mario & Luigi) Different colored beans
Red/Green/Pink Berries (Super Mario World)
Lemon (Paper Mario)
Lime (Paper Mario)
Blimp Fruit (Mario Galaxy)
Fire Flower (Super Mario Brothers)
Ice Flower (New Mario Brothers)
Super Mushroom (Super Mario Brothers) Increases size
Bad Mushroom / Poison Mushroom (Super Mario Brothers Japanese 2)
Polymorph Mushroom (Mario RPG) Turns anything that eats it into a mushroom temporarily
Mid Mushroom (Mario RPG)
Max Mushroom (Mario RPG)
Mega Mushroom (New Mario Brothers) Grow to Megabeast proprotions temporarily
Volt Shroom (Paper Mario)
Life Shroom (Paper Mario) Not the green kind. This one is red spotted and one spot is a heart
1-Up Shroom (Super Mario Brothers)
1-Up Super (Mario & Luigi)
Absorbing Mushroom (Mario Kart GP)
Bee Mushroom (Mario Galaxy) Powerup
Mushroom Drop (Mario & Luigi)
Super Drop (Mario & Luigi)
Ultra Drop (Mario & Luigi)
Propeller Mushroom (New Super Mario Brothers) Powerup
Refreshroom (Mario & Luigi) 1-Up basically, has a white spot
Reverse Mushroom (Super Mario Brothers) Size Reducing Mushroom
Rock Mushroom (Mario Galaxy 2) Powerup
Slimy Mushroom (Super Paper Mario) Cured poison and restored health
Slow Mushroom (Paper Mario) Gave Health Regen instead of instant health
Sluggish Shroom (Mario Party) Slowed down the dice making it easier to roll what you want
Super Mini Mushroom (Mario Party) Pink version of the Mini Mushroom and shrinks farther
Mini Mushroom (New Mario Brothers) Shrinks instead of grows
Super Mega Mushroom (Mario Party) Not really any different from Mega Mushroom but its blue.
Spring Mushroom (Mario Galaxy) Powerup
Super Shroom (Paper Mario) Unlike Super Mushroom, this just restores health
Vaccum Shroom (Mario & Luigi) Powerup that gives the user Kirby-like vacuuming.

Bulb Bush (Paper Mario) Touch it and it gives off light.
Dune Bud (Mario Sunshine) Absorbs large amounts of water.
Heart Plant (Paper Mario) Gives off Hearts when touched
Hurt Plant (Paper Mario) Looks like Heart Plant but attacks when Mario gets close
Lava Lotus (Super Mario Brothers 3) Underwater planet that spits fireballs.
Volcano Lotus (Super Mario World) Same thing as Lava Lotus but on land
M. Bush (Paper Mario) A poisonous plant that attacks Mario
Chuckola Fruit (Mario & Luigi) Plant turned into Chuckola Cola. Comes in several varieties identified by color, Red, Purple, White, and Orange.
Spinning Flower (Mario RPG) Flower plant that Mario stands on and can jump from, much higher than normal.
Spinning Flower (Paper Mario) No real name is given for this either, different variety. Notably different appearance, lacking the sphere with a face in the middle of the petals.
Nipper Dandelion (Yoshi's Island) The last stage of the Nipper Plant which is carnivorous and jumps around.
Windbag (Yoshi's Island) Huge, eggplant shaped fruit attached to a long vine holding it up in the air. Blows strong winds, usually at Nipper Dandelions.


Creatures

Web Spinners
Pider (Paper Mario) Forest spiders that are completely black and white
Scuttle Bug (New Super Mario Bros)
Fuzzy Family ('Fuzzy', maybe let them get sheared too?)
Kumo (Mario Land 1)
Suu (Mario Land 1)

Milked
Lil' Oinks (Paper Mario) Pigs creatures with many strange appearances and apparently come from eggs.
Moo Moo (Mario Kart 64) Cows
Debull (Yoshi's Island) Bulls (no female shown.. male Moo Moo?)


Shear
Fuzzy Family (Maybe)
Fuzzy Wiggler (Yoshi's Story) Wiggler with green hair


Other
Birdo (Used like Yoshis pretty much)
Star Bunny (MarioGalaxy) Rabbit
Poochi (Yoshi's Island) Dog
Bumpty (Yoshi's Island) Penguin
Swooper (Super Mario World) Bats
Monty Moles (Super Mario World) Moles
Chow/K-9 (Mario RPG) Wolf or Dog-like enemy
Guerilla/Chained Kong (Mario RPG) Clearly a Donkey Kong Ape
Hippopo (Mario RPG) Hippo enemy
MukuMuku (Mario RPG) Gophers
Ukiuki (Mario 64) Monkeys
Porcupo (Super Mario Brothers 2) Porcupine enemy from Sub-con
Walruss (Super Princess Peach) Yea, Walrus.
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Pikdome

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.03)
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2012, 04:05:44 am »

Why, moo moos of course!
http://www.mariowiki.com/Moo_Moo

You can derive a type of sheep, a 'sleepy sheep' or something of the like from this item:http://www.mariowiki.com/Sleepy_Sheep
There have been instances of sheep, but if you wanna make a more Mario lore friendly sheep, I reccomend a sleepy one.

Oh, darn, beaten to it, by a lot.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.03)
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2012, 05:18:58 am »

That's a lot of powerups!  But there's still a major lack of plants that are used for things other than eating.  Probably because the Mario series wasn't made for a game like this  :P

Li'l Oinks, Sleepy Sheep, and Moo Moos could work, although they are kind of generic.  Shearing Fuzzies didn't occur to me, it's a good idea.

StephanReiken

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.03)
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2012, 07:52:02 am »

Most of those are health recovery plants rather than powerups. :P
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.04)
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2012, 10:25:15 am »

Most of those are health recovery plants rather than powerups. :P

I'm using health recovery items as powerups that increase recuperation speed.

Anyway, new workshop added: The Magikoopa Sanctum.  Koopa magic uses the Alchemy skill (I used that because the hidden MAGIC_NATURE skill is a lot harder to control, since everyone always has it active, also it has no job name).  You can produce magic scepters, which are weapons that use the Alchemy skill in melee and can fire magic ammo, which is created from small cut gems.  You can also train magic ability in the Sanctum, and learn three new special abilities: Stun for immobilizing enemies, Enlarge for buffing allies, and Teleport for moving around quickly.  Magikoopas are pricey though: Magic ammo costs one small cut gem per shot, and building the sanctum, creating the scepters, and learning the abilities consume one LARGE CUT GEM each, so don't expect there to be a lot of Magikoopas running around until much later in the game.

kilakan

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.04)
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2012, 04:43:42 pm »

noticed something about the koopas, not sure if it's just my one or what, but they couldnt make pants... and were thus always very angry and embarassed.
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ArKFallen

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Re: Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom: Major Mod (Update! Version 0.04)
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2012, 08:11:53 pm »

Koopas also embark with a tax collector because it isn't appointed or elected by anything else they have (supposed to be DUKE/COUNT/BARON). Very aggravating seeing as the tax collector doesn't need to work and every time you leave the position empty someone else decides to fill it.
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