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Author Topic: Falling damage nerfed?  (Read 27112 times)

Kassil

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2012, 11:50:56 am »

well, Its still better then before. If you fell 2 stories IRL, would you require hospitalization? Now apply that to hardened dwarves.

Depending on he surface material you're landing on, the condition of it, and how well you know how to/are capable of landing from a fall?
Yes. Quite a few people /would/ require some degree of hospitalization, often for things like fractured ankles and knees, particularly for a startling and unexpected fall.
Now, if you've been taught how to soak up the kinetic energy of your fall? Probably not. Learning to turn your fall into a tumble is a powerful tool in the "Don't go splat!" toolbox.
Drop a horse from two stories up, it'll likely need to be put down.
Drop a kitten, it might need vet attention, but it might walk away unharmed.
You could pour a bucket of ants, crickets, or cockroaches over a much higher ledge and not even bruise any of them.
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Wheelbarrows with wheels are inferior to the true wheelbarrow.
you mean elves with loads of stone loaded onto their backs while walking on their hands with dwarves holding their legs to guide them?

weenog

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2012, 12:00:01 pm »

So, being a hardened warrior makes a dwarf smaller than it would otherwise be?
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Listen up: making a thing a ‼thing‼ doesn't make it more awesome or extreme.  It simply indicates the thing is on fire.  Get it right or look like a silly poser.

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misko27

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2012, 12:08:27 pm »

No, I imply that dwarves are capable of continuing their lives while with what would be at least a sick day IRL. Besides, Dwarves ARE small, they are midgets after all..
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 04:36:33 pm by misko27 »
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byrnsey

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2012, 12:40:04 pm »

I will only believe this if someone is willing to empitically test it. Someone go drop a ant of their house. Besides, If I say, fell from a 4 story building, I would quite likely need a  long period of hospitaliztion. However, the possiblity of instantaneously dying is slim.

Are you serious?  This is well known science (as opposed to !!SCIENCE!!)  the lower mass of an object like an insect means that it reaches the ground with less kinetic energy (wind resistance is also larger, but the effect holds even in a vacuum).  Load bearing objects are stronger on small scales than large due to having to support their own weight, which is why ants are so "strong", elephants have such disproportionately thick bones, mountains have maximum heights depending on their planet's gravity... etc.  So you decelerate an object that can better absorb it, and dissipate less energy?  Of course it will be fine.
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misko27

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2012, 01:09:31 pm »

[REDACTED]
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 04:38:45 pm by misko27 »
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weenog

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2012, 01:15:06 pm »

I will only believe this if someone is willing to empitically test it. Someone go drop a ant of their house. Besides, If I say, fell from a 4 story building, I would quite likely need a  long period of hospitaliztion. However, the possiblity of instantaneously dying is slim.

Are you serious?  This is well known science (as opposed to !!SCIENCE!!)  the lower mass of an object like an insect means that it reaches the ground with less kinetic energy (wind resistance is also larger, but the effect holds even in a vacuum).  Load bearing objects are stronger on small scales than large due to having to support their own weight, which is why ants are so "strong", elephants have such disproportionately thick bones, mountains have maximum heights depending on their planet's gravity... etc.  So you decelerate an object that can better absorb it, and dissipate less energy?  Of course it will be fine.
Ahh, but the composition of the animal matters as well. Say I were drop a baby of a 2 story building, compare that to the effect of a hunam dropped off a 2 story building. The human will be injured, possibly severly, but will survive. The baby, on the other hand, is made of weaker stuff and will take the injury less easily.
On a different note, the horse and ram I dropped off were NOT fine, and had I been a humane individual I would have put them to sleep. and then ate them. I just pastured them like veterans and called it a day.

You're making an assumption that's rejected by the facts, and using it to support something else.  Try running a search along the lines of "why do babies survive falls" and see what you learn.
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Listen up: making a thing a ‼thing‼ doesn't make it more awesome or extreme.  It simply indicates the thing is on fire.  Get it right or look like a silly poser.

It's useful to keep a ‼torch‼ handy.

misko27

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2012, 01:16:13 pm »

okay, I've decided to end this arguement here. To finish this up. Yes, its been nerfed.
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2012, 01:17:59 pm »

well, Its still better then before. If you fell 2 stories IRL, would you require hospitalization? Now apply that to hardened dwarves.
...
Drop a kitten, it might need vet attention, but it might walk away unharmed.
...

One of our cats a few years ago jumped straight from the top of a tree in our yard, about 2-3 stories tall, and she just kept running like it was nothing :P
Had I jumped from that height though I'm fairly sure I'd break a leg at the very least. Some kind of fall damage modifier for various creatures might be a good idea ^^
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ctharvey

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2012, 01:21:03 pm »

okay, I've decided to end this arguement here. To finish this up. Yes, its been nerfed.

Putting fingers in his ears and screaming "LALALALALALA."
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Kassil

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2012, 01:23:05 pm »

No, I imply that dwarves are capable of continuing their lives while with what would be at least a sick day IRL. Besides, Dwarves ARE small, they are midgets after all...
well, Its still better then before. If you fell 2 stories IRL, would you require hospitalization? Now apply that to hardened dwarves.

Depending on he surface material you're landing on, the condition of it, and how well you know how to/are capable of landing from a fall?
Yes. Quite a few people /would/ require some degree of hospitalization, often for things like fractured ankles and knees, particularly for a startling and unexpected fall.
Now, if you've been taught how to soak up the kinetic energy of your fall? Probably not. Learning to turn your fall into a tumble is a powerful tool in the "Don't go splat!" toolbox.
Drop a horse from two stories up, it'll likely need to be put down.
Drop a kitten, it might need vet attention, but it might walk away unharmed.
You could pour a bucket of ants, crickets, or cockroaches over a much higher ledge and not even bruise any of them.
I will only believe this if someone is willing to empitically test it. Someone go drop a ant of their house. Besides, If I say, fell from a 4 story building, I would quite likely need a  long period of hospitaliztion. However, the possiblity of instantaneously dying is slim.

Err...
It's physics.
It's the same reason a feather falls slower than an equal mass of lead, and why the lead pellet will produce an impact mark and the feather won't. More surface area to less mass, in relative measures.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/science/are-bugs-hurt-in-falls-from-high-rises.html
http://www.happynews.com/news/262009/why-ants-don-die-when-falling-high-distances.htm

And you are correct, if you land on most parts of your body, you're likely to survive. Land on your head, you're likely to suffer much more traumatic damage. Damage your spine in the wrong place, too...

And, well, these are dorfs. They're not smart enough to avoid knocking the roof down on their own heads, or put themselves out if they're on fire. They're probably not smart enough to flail in midair to land on less-sensitive parts of their body.
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Wheelbarrows with wheels are inferior to the true wheelbarrow.
you mean elves with loads of stone loaded onto their backs while walking on their hands with dwarves holding their legs to guide them?

Rez

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2012, 01:28:44 pm »

Falling is one of those things where things occur outside commonly held beliefs about how the world works.

There was a rock climbing accident a while back in which someone fell from the top of a 40+ foot route.  He landed on his dog and walked away unscathed, sans dog unfortunately.  Recently, a guy jumped something like 4000 feet with just a wing-suit and a few thousand boxes at the bottom.  Obviously the physics works out, but these kinds of situations occur outside of common experience and thus, common knowledge about physics.
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weenog

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2012, 01:29:09 pm »

And you are correct, if you land on most parts of your body, you're likely to survive.

Yeah, I did this by blind luck once.  Sitting on the rail around the roof of a two-story parking garage, a friend said something I didn't quite hear, I turned to ask her to repeat herself, lost balance and fell over the side.  Landed flat on my back, wasn't injured, it didn't even hurt, though it scared the hell out of her.

Turns out she'd been saying "Don't fall off of there."  :D
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Listen up: making a thing a ‼thing‼ doesn't make it more awesome or extreme.  It simply indicates the thing is on fire.  Get it right or look like a silly poser.

It's useful to keep a ‼torch‼ handy.

Kassil

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2012, 01:33:56 pm »

Falling is one of those things where things occur outside commonly held beliefs about how the world works.

There was a rock climbing accident a while back in which someone fell from the top of a 40+ foot route.  He landed on his dog and walked away unscathed, sans dog unfortunately.  Recently, a guy jumped something like 4000 feet with just a wing-suit and a few thousand boxes at the bottom.  Obviously the physics works out, but these kinds of situations occur outside of common experience and thus, common knowledge about physics.

Oh, certainly. The record for 'survived fall' is something like 3.1 miles, I believe. The guy more or less shattered all the ones in his body, but he survived what /should/ have been a splatter incident. Others have survived impressive falls and walked away unscathered, including one who fell over a mile and more-or-less just bounced. Physics is a complex and tricky beast once you account for all the material interactions in the ground and the human body. Still, more often than not, if someone falls from those heights they'll be crippled at best and killed/splattered at worst.
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Wheelbarrows with wheels are inferior to the true wheelbarrow.
you mean elves with loads of stone loaded onto their backs while walking on their hands with dwarves holding their legs to guide them?

misko27

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2012, 02:05:19 pm »

You know, I think he has that in game actually. I've noticed sometimes a animal will die instantly, another will barely hurt himself, and the other is crippled. My testing is currently on the fritz due to a lack of test subjects. but it is pretty random at times.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 04:39:51 pm by misko27 »
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khearn

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Re: Falling damage nerfed?
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2012, 08:14:47 pm »

I just did my first test drop. 10 dwarven volunteers were dropped 19 z-levels. I meant for it to be 20, but miscounted. oops. And actually there were 10 volunteers, plus one baby. Before the falling damage was changed, this height would have been 100% fatal, with everyone fully disassembling upon impact. This is no longer the case.

I watched the fall one tick a ta time, and it was very interesting. Dwarves fall at a wide variety of rates. The baby parted company with mom immediately, and fell faster than any of the other dwarves. It hit bottom after 37 ticks. The next dwarf landed at 40 ticks, and the last one didn't hit until 57 ticks. There were also 2 mid-air collisions, one of which resulted in death.

The first mid-air seems to have been due to two dwarves starting in the same tile. One fell slightly faster and ended up at -6 z-levels while the other was still at -5. Then the next tick the second dwarf dropped to -6 and collided with the first, who was still there. One dwarf took damage and the other didn't, but I'm not sure which was the one that was already there. The one that took damage did slow down a lot and ended up being the last one to land. He took 5 hits, including a broken bone, 3 bruises (including a lung), and spinal damage that would have been enough to be fatal, even if he hadn't smashed into the bottom of the test chamber a little while later.

The second mid-air collision didn't seem to involve two dwarves. The dwarf that has hurt was next to a wall, and may have just hit it. This fellow took 6 hits, 2 broken bones, 3 bruises (also including a lung), and a smashed skull driven into his brain. So in this case, it was the fall that killed him, he was already dead when he got to the sudden stop at the end.

Of the 10 who fell, 3 were dead immediately, 1 died shortly afterwards from suffocation, 4 are in the hospital, 2 landed on others and only got stunned and walked away unwounded. The Baby has both arms and both legs broken, but nobody has bothered to do anything to help it, so it's dragging itself out of the test chamber, leaving a trail of blood. Its mother is dead from the fall, and it's father is ecstatic, despite (or maybe because of?) his wife's death. He wasn't in the test group, BTW. Maybe that's why he's so happy.

Of those who were alive when they hit the bottom, they each received 6-9 hits.

Oh, look. One of the two that walked away unharmed just went berzerk because 4 of her friends just died. I guess I'd better go deal with her.

I'll do more tests later from greater heights to see if there is a height that is reliably fatal.

TL;DR: falls from 19 z-levels are no longer automatic kills. Only 40% of my test group died, with another 40% hospitalized, and 20% unharmed due to landing on others.
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