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Author Topic: Broken Melting?  (Read 3592 times)

Rage Machine

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Broken Melting?
« on: June 17, 2012, 04:24:26 am »

i just had my 1st strange mood in my new fort only to find... that i can't finish it because i have no metal on hand. but alas! i have many steel bolts left by a some caravan guards that slaughtered a kobol. i claimed them and designated them for melting only to get spammed the message:
Domas Rovodning, Weaponsmith cancels Melt a Metal Object: needs melt-designated item.

i have more bolts to melt still (he did that 1st few fine) and plenty of charcoal for my forge but he just refuses to do anything. endlessly telling me i have no melt designated items. i have tried toggling melt and forbid but he just wont do it...
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Yovatsap

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2012, 04:31:15 am »

Are the bolts outside? Items dropped outside by invaders are automatically marked as forbidden. Try reclaiming them with d -> b -> c

Garath

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2012, 04:34:25 am »

is the smelter set to take from a stockpile? there was someone (thread on this page) who had that problem
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Seikatsukan

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2012, 04:35:11 am »

There is already a similar thread about this: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111649.0

There is another, less related, similar problem: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=111654.0

Check them out, see if the suggestions made there help.
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Rage Machine

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2012, 05:07:50 am »

thx for the help guys, i think that might be that it wasnt set to use that stockpile.

also Yovatsap please READ my post before commenting, i already stated that i claimed them, i even toggled forbidden. all stated in my original post.
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Yovatsap

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2012, 05:18:31 am »

thx for the help guys, i think that might be that it wasnt set to use that stockpile.

also Yovatsap please READ my post before commenting, i already stated that i claimed them, i even toggled forbidden. all stated in my original post.
Yeah, I noticed afterwards but I thought I changed it. Sorry about that.

Seikatsukan

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2012, 05:23:41 am »

Seems a lot of people are having trouble with stockpile links lately. The Wiki is obviously lacking something, and I'd go add it right now if it weren't because I'm lacking something myself: sleep.

I have to admit the "give" and "take" links and the troubles arising from their obscureness seem to be the symptoms of a flawed stockpiling system. I hope when Toady decides to include material selection for workshop orders, it becomes less necessary to use them.
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Quote from: Naryar
It's simply an escaped demon posing as a god. Still a badass killing machine, but nothing your dwarves can't handle.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

HiEv

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2012, 11:04:08 am »

Seems a lot of people are having trouble with stockpile links lately. The Wiki is obviously lacking something, and I'd go add it right now if it weren't because I'm lacking something myself: sleep.

I added a cautionary paragraph to the "Give to a stockpile/workshop" section of the Stockpiles wiki entry.  Better?
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Sutremaine

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2012, 11:51:08 am »

I have to admit the "give" and "take" links and the troubles arising from their obscureness seem to be the symptoms of a flawed stockpiling system.
Really? I never had a problem with processing 'pile now gives to workshop' as 'other piles no longer give to workshop'. The default behaviour for a stockpile is to give to any workshops that want its materials, so changing this behaviour would have to change something else to make sense.

I've also seen plenty of people post about how, say, a stone stockpile linked to a mason's workshop means that the workshop will only take from that stockpile (allowing for items to be made of particular stones without having to physically constrain the mason), so I thought it was widely understood that workshops set to take from a stockpile won't take materials from stockpiles they're not set to take from.
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HiEv

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2012, 12:19:50 pm »

I've also seen plenty of people post about how, say, a stone stockpile linked to a mason's workshop means that the workshop will only take from that stockpile (allowing for items to be made of particular stones without having to physically constrain the mason), so I thought it was widely understood that workshops set to take from a stockpile won't take materials from stockpiles they're not set to take from.

The problem is that some people forget that certain required materials also need to be linked to the workshop.  So, if you want to make a still that only makes dwarven beer you might link your still to your cave wheat stockpile, while forgetting to also link to a furniture pile so you have barrels and pots to put the beer into.  The problem is that people think/assume, "Well, obviously it needs barrels or pots too, so it should grab them anyways."  However, the game isn't that smart.

It would be nice if Toady One could set it so that for workshops that require more than one type of item, if a stockpile is linked to it for one of those types, then it will only use that stockpile for that type, but for the other (unlinked) types it will still take them from anywhere.  This would solve a lot of the "oops, forgot to link a fuel stockpile to my smelter too" type problems.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 01:03:13 pm by HiEv »
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Sutremaine

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2012, 12:49:21 pm »

The problem is that people think/assume, "Well, obviously it needs barrels or pots too, so it should grab them anyways."  However, the game isn't that smart.
It doesn't have any way of being that smart, as there's no way to tell a job which item is the one that defines the job from the viewpoint of the player. Guess I'm just naturally aware of the difference between human logic and computer logic, or something.

Quote
It would be nice if Toady One could set it so that for workshops that require more than one type of item, if a stockpile is linked to it for one of those types, then it will only use that stockpile for that type, but for the other (unlinked) types it will still take them from anywhere.  This would solve a lot of the "oops, forgot to link a fuel stockpile to my smelter too" type problems.
That might be an easy enough rewrite, if the game checked for general availability after failing to find any job items in a linked stockpile. You'd need a third level of linkage (strict limiting to linked stockpiles, as it is now) to stop dwarves from wandering off elsewhere for materials if their feeder stockpiles got emptied. I don't know how you'd code a job item counter without having to add something to every job in the game...
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

HiEv

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2012, 01:12:58 pm »

It doesn't have any way of being that smart, as there's no way to tell a job which item is the one that defines the job from the viewpoint of the player.

Making it that smart was what my next paragraph was about.

It would be nice if Toady One could set it so that for workshops that require more than one type of item, if a stockpile is linked to it for one of those types, then it will only use that stockpile for that type, but for the other (unlinked) types it will still take them from anywhere.  This would solve a lot of the "oops, forgot to link a fuel stockpile to my smelter too" type problems.

That might be an easy enough rewrite, if the game checked for general availability after failing to find any job items in a linked stockpile. You'd need a third level of linkage (strict limiting to linked stockpiles, as it is now) to stop dwarves from wandering off elsewhere for materials if their feeder stockpiles got emptied. I don't know how you'd code a job item counter without having to add something to every job in the game...

You simply do it this way.  For example, the still needs some kind of brewable plant material and some kind of container in order to work.  So, when a stockpile is set to give to the still, the still checks those two slots to see if the stockpile(s) connected to it fill both those slots, if not, then that slot is set to "take from anywhere".  So if you had a stockpile that accepted some kind of brewable plant, but no empty containers, then set it to give to the still, the still would set "plants: take from stockpile X ; containers: take from anywhere".  It's entirely based on the stockpile settings, and not the stockpile's contents.  If the source plant stockpile is empty, then the still wouldn't be able to brew anything until some brewable plants got stored in that stockpile.
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Seikatsukan

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Re: Broken Melting?
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2012, 02:50:08 pm »

I added a cautionary paragraph to the "Give to a stockpile/workshop" section of the Stockpiles wiki entry.  Better?

Much better! Hope that stops the flood of "my dwarves don't use X but I have a lot!" messages here lol.
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Quote from: Naryar
It's simply an escaped demon posing as a god. Still a badass killing machine, but nothing your dwarves can't handle.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.