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Author Topic: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.  (Read 6566 times)

HiEv

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2012, 09:56:37 pm »

EDIT: Scratch that, I think it's a bug. I dug another tunnel by my original farm's magma input tunnel, to see if it made any difference. My miner still refused to step on the obsidian floor. But then, when I was about to build a wall to plug that tunnel, I saw "Obsidian" listed in the materials, and I hadn't mined any beforehand... check it out:



I think I accidentally an ugly, ugly bug.

Well, the bad news is that that's a known bug:

Bug #5932: Distance to available stone is negative

The good news is that this bug does not appear to survive saving and reloading.  Save the game, exit, restart DF, and reload and that problem should be fixed.  If it isn't, zip up the save, upload it here, and add a note to that bug with a link to your save file and an explanation of how to see the bug there.  Even if you've just found a way to reproduce that bug reliably, please add a note about that to the bug page as well.
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Seikatsukan

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2012, 11:02:46 pm »

Well, the bad news is that that's a known bug:

Bug #5932: Distance to available stone is negative

The good news is that this bug does not appear to survive saving and reloading.  Save the game, exit, restart DF, and reload and that problem should be fixed.

Thanks a lot for shedding some light on this. Searching the bug tracker for obisidian+inaccessible yielded several similar bugs that were all marked as resolved (even when some were actually only abandoned, wtf). Looks to me like an undead bug.

Reloading the game yields only a "partial" fix: the light-years distant obsidian disappears from the list, but the basic problem still stands. As soon as I mine an obsidian wall and it produces a boulder, a hauling job is created, a dwarf goes over to the stockpile to grab a wheelbarrow, and when he does, an "Item Inaccessible" error pops up and the absurd obsidian appears in the list.

If it isn't, zip up the save, upload it here, and add a note to that bug with a link to your save file and an explanation of how to see the bug there.  Even if you've just found a way to reproduce that bug reliably, please add a note about that to the bug page as well.

Will do. However, note that the raws in my save are not exactly vanilla. Can that be a problem? I use the Ironhand pack (the unofficial, updated one), which modifies several creature and item tiles and colors, but that shouldn't really be a problem since it's exclusively cosmetic. On the other hand, I had made two edits to the raws to "fix" things that were annoying me to no end: preventing catsplosions by removing [ADOPTS_OWNER] and removing skill rust. I have reverted those changes to see if they had anything to do with the bug (at first glance, they shouldn't) and the bug remains the same. Are there any guidelines for uploading bugged saves? I could simply replace the raws in it for the vanilla ones since I always keep an untouched set for comparison, and it wouldn't really hurt the save since I didn't do any heavy modding. I'll wait for your reply. On the meanwhile, my noob jeweler will have to make do with green glass.

Thanks again, HiEv. I had already seen your contributions on the wiki, you're a cool and helpful person.
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HiEv

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2012, 08:23:54 pm »

Thanks.  If you're unsure about the mods, why don't you zip and upload the save, along with some instructions on how to reproduce the problem, post the link here in the forums, and then some of us can take a crack at it before you post it up to the bugtracker.  Normally though, you can either make a quickie vanilla save that reproduces the problem (if this isn't too difficult) or just upload what you have and note the mods/raw edits (if it is too time consuming to reproduce in vanilla), after zipping up the save folder and uploading it to Wimbli, and then post a link to that uploaded file in the bugtracker with an explanation of how to find/reproduce the bug from that save.

One other thing I was kind of wondering about, in the image some of your stairs are red.  Is this from magma that is still in there?  If this is the case, could the dwarves be avoiding that area due to the new fire-avoidance code Toady One added into v0.34.11 ("creatures not safe from fire will run out of lethally hot squares")?  Not sure how likely that is, but is one possibility, I suppose.  You might want to see if applying a little water cools things down and makes it accessible.

Side note: The bug report I linked to in my previous post is actually a duplicate of this earlier bug report.  Not that that helps much, but the newer one has now been closed as a duplicate.
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Seikatsukan

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2012, 01:53:52 am »

Thanks.  If you're unsure about the mods, why don't you zip and upload the save, along with some instructions on how to reproduce the problem, post the link here in the forums, and then some of us can take a crack at it before you post it up to the bugtracker.  Normally though, you can either make a quickie vanilla save that reproduces the problem (if this isn't too difficult) or just upload what you have and note the mods/raw edits (if it is too time consuming to reproduce in vanilla), after zipping up the save folder and uploading it to Wimbli, and then post a link to that uploaded file in the bugtracker with an explanation of how to find/reproduce the bug from that save.

One other thing I was kind of wondering about, in the image some of your stairs are red.  Is this from magma that is still in there?  If this is the case, could the dwarves be avoiding that area due to the new fire-avoidance code Toady One added into v0.34.11 ("creatures not safe from fire will run out of lethally hot squares")?  Not sure how likely that is, but is one possibility, I suppose.  You might want to see if applying a little water cools things down and makes it accessible.

I believe now that my save -in the state it is in right now- will be very useful for you, so I have uploaded it. Read on to know why.

First of all, the red on those stairs is just mud. I always made sure there would be no chance for my miners to have !!FUN!! while digging the obsidian :P. Incidentally, I had made a connection between the new code you talk about and this bug, in the order of "Hey, maybe some tile property is not updating properly and my dwarves are avoiding the area because they think it is still magma-hot."; however, I had no way to find out until today, when I painstakingly compiled and installed DFHack (if only to clean up several dozen bloodstains left behind by the victims of my careless deconstruction designations). I made good use of the "probe" command, and here is what I've come up with:
  • It returns, among several other things, two temperatures.
  • For magma, both are 12000 U, as expected.
  • Underground tiles have both temperatures at 10015 U. Aboveground tiles are at 10022 U. Open space above ground is at 10027 U.
  • The natural, warm obsidian walls of the local volcano have both temperatures at 10075 U (warm stone).
  • Here comes the fun part: the obsidian walls I farmed have "temperature2" at 10075 as if they were warm stone, despite not being in contact with magma anymore. Not only that, they show a "temperature1" of 12000 U (!). Evidently, something is amiss here. My miner can step on the obsidian floor immediately above without problems and channel the obsidian out, but when I "probe" the now-empty tiles with DFHack, "temperature1" is still 12000 U.
This, expecting DFHack to be an accurate tool, would seemingly support my theory: some tile property is not being properly updated when magma becomes obsidian, and dwarves avoid the tiles due to this inaccurately high temperature. However, when a dwarf falls into such a tile, he doesn't immolate; that piece of data is only used in pathfinding.

As I said, the save is now uploaded with all relevant information at Wimbli, along with a recount of all the relevant info I've dropped in this thread. I believe making a vanilla save will not be necessary, but I'll leave the judging up to you, who probably know more about the game than I. If you think it is necessary, be sure to tell me and I'll produce one in a couple of days. Otherwise, feel free to add the save to the bug report.
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Tirion

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2012, 02:23:03 am »

[TEMPERATURE:OFF]. See if they can get the stone.
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Seikatsukan

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2012, 02:24:42 am »

[TEMPERATURE:OFF]. See if they can get the stone.

It has been off since my fluid-redirecting projects killed my FPS.
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It's simply an escaped demon posing as a god. Still a badass killing machine, but nothing your dwarves can't handle.
Quote from: �
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

HiEv

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2012, 07:31:56 pm »

[TEMPERATURE:OFF]. See if they can get the stone.

It has been off since my fluid-redirecting projects killed my FPS.

Heh... Actually I was going to suggest making sure that temperature is on, since having it off can keep temperatures "locked" at a certain temperature in some cases, from what I understand.  (Or am I thinking of weather?)

I'm downloading the save now, and I'll try to take a look at it tonight or tomorrow.

I don't use DFHack much, so does anyone know the difference is between how Temperature1 and Temperature2 are used?
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Seikatsukan

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2012, 08:52:18 pm »

Heh... Actually I was going to suggest making sure that temperature is on, since having it off can keep temperatures "locked" at a certain temperature in some cases, from what I understand.  (Or am I thinking of weather?)

I'm downloading the save now, and I'll try to take a look at it tonight or tomorrow.

I don't use DFHack much, so does anyone know the difference is between how Temperature1 and Temperature2 are used?

No need to waste your time, HiEv, you were right, and I'm an idiot. Maybe you were thinking of weather, since disabling it in the middle of a storm will net you a permanently stormy map, but Temperature=OFF was indeed the cause of my problem. I activated it, and the temperature of the bugged areas dropped. My dwarves picked the obsidian up.

I missed the forest because of the trees; it happens often to me. Thanks everyone, this "bug" failure of mine has been fixed. I'll check the Wiki pages and add the relevant information so it doesn't happen again. I'll also update the file on Wimbli to save everyone the effort of checking it out.
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It's simply an escaped demon posing as a god. Still a badass killing machine, but nothing your dwarves can't handle.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

HiEv

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2012, 10:23:10 am »

Temperature=OFF was indeed the cause of my problem. I activated it, and the temperature of the bugged areas dropped. My dwarves picked the obsidian up.

Cool.  Glad that got it working.

Two major mysteries solved in one day (the other one).  I feel like the DF version of Sherlock Holmes!  :P
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Seikatsukan

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Re: Obsidian farming problem: "Item inaccessible" spam.
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2012, 02:43:01 pm »

Cool.  Glad that got it working.

Two major mysteries solved in one day (the other one).  I feel like the DF version of Sherlock Holmes!  :P

Haha congratulations! I know, solving problems is really gratifying. Also, thanks for the link, I had no idea the stockpile additional options did that. Saved me some potential trouble.
Anyway, now that I think about it, the save I uploaded might be useful for a simple way of reproducing the negative distance bug, so I left it there.
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Quote from: Naryar
It's simply an escaped demon posing as a god. Still a badass killing machine, but nothing your dwarves can't handle.
Quote from: �
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
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