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Author Topic: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test  (Read 9322 times)

Sutremaine

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Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« on: June 12, 2012, 04:49:57 pm »

I created three dwarves, one with no Armour User skill, one with Proficient Armour User skill, and one with Grand Master Armour User skill. I then created some armour for them to take turns wearing. For the purposes of this test, a full set of armour (plus weapon and shield) is as follows:

1 helm
1 mail shirt
1 breastplate
1 pair of greaves
2 high boots
2 gauntlets
1 shield
1 battle axe

These sets were created in three materials: copper (8.93 density), bronze (8.25 density), and iron (7.85 density). Steel was not used because it has the same density as iron.

The equipment was both worn and carried, in order to gauge each dwarf's Strength. Even though arena-created dwarves are consistent in their stats, there is a little variation.

Dwarf #1, no Armour User skill
Base speed: 951
Copper: 599 worn, 599 carried (62.9% speed)
Bronze: 629 worn, 629 carried (66.1% speed)
Iron: 648 worn, 648 carried (68.1% speed)



Dwarf #1, Proficient Armour User skill
Base speed: 951
Copper: 758 worn, 588 carried (79.7% speed)
Bronze: 784 worn, 618 carried (82.4% speed)
Iron: 815 worn, 636 carried (85.7% speed)



Dwarf #1, Grand Master Armour User skill
Base speed: 951
Copper: 951 worn, 599 carried (100% speed)
Bronze: 951 worn, 629 carried (100% speed)
Iron: 951 worn, 649 carried (100% speed)

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Monk321654

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2012, 05:06:03 pm »

Well, this is some great Science.
We can thus gather that Armor user not only grants higher use of the armor, but also improves movement speed.
I wonder which armor is best for movement?
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UristMcWanderer

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 05:08:45 pm »

From the stats and testing, apparently iron weapons and armor is the way to go.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 05:23:50 pm »

We can thus gather that Armor user not only grants higher use of the armor, but also improves movement speed.
I wonder which armor is best for movement?

It's just confirming an already known fact. As armour goes, the lighter the better.
(But protection > Mobility)
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luppolo

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 05:24:19 pm »

i always thought Armor user affected speed exclusively

after all a breastplate either worn by a rookie or an experienced warrior should offer the same rate of protection
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Sutremaine

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2012, 06:05:25 pm »

I didn't think there'd be any point in testing adamantine. :P

We can thus gather that Armor user not only grants higher use of the armor, but also improves movement speed.
What do you mean by 'grants higher use'? Deflects more blows? Testing was done on that a while back, and Grand Master Armour Users survived more volleys of arrows in the arena than unskilled dwarves in the same armour.

In previous versions (.31 until the hauling update? It's been a while), even copper armour wouldn't slow a raw recruit down. Now it does, and I don't think there have been any numbers to show just how much.

Weights of each piece of equipment, listed by copper and iron, in case you want to know where there are weight savings to be made:

Helm: 8, 7
Mail shirt: 22, 19
Breastplate: 19, 17
Greaves: 25, 22 (copper leggings weigh 23 units, btw)
2 high boots: 6, 6
2 gauntlets: 2, 2
Shield: 11, 10
Battle axe: 7, 6
Total: 100, 89

Note that the above figures are rough. DF stores the exact weight of objects, but only displays weights as whole units.
Leg protection is surprisingly heavy.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Hokan

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2012, 06:55:07 pm »

i always thought Armor user affected speed exclusively

after all a breastplate either worn by a rookie or an experienced warrior should offer the same rate of protection

Not completely true. Although wearing a breastplate is a huge improvement no matter the skill, experienced armor users will know how to correctly move to minimize exposure to weak points, or angle their body effectively to deflect blows better.
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crazysheep

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2012, 07:12:02 pm »

i always thought Armor user affected speed exclusively

after all a breastplate either worn by a rookie or an experienced warrior should offer the same rate of protection

Not completely true. Although wearing a breastplate is a huge improvement no matter the skill, experienced armor users will know how to correctly move to minimize exposure to weak points, or angle their body effectively to deflect blows better.
I see where you're coming from. The basic protection offered by armour should still be the same though.
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Hokan

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2012, 07:45:06 pm »

i always thought Armor user affected speed exclusively

after all a breastplate either worn by a rookie or an experienced warrior should offer the same rate of protection

Not completely true. Although wearing a breastplate is a huge improvement no matter the skill, experienced armor users will know how to correctly move to minimize exposure to weak points, or angle their body effectively to deflect blows better.
I see where you're coming from. The basic protection offered by armour should still be the same though.

Like basically everything in the game, it may or may not be a placeholder, bug or feature. Toady One has plans and designs far above our understandings, much like a deity.
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Valuing life seems too close to an aesthetic rule for me, I think.
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Quietust

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 08:40:52 pm »

In case you're curious, Armor User historically only reduced the effective weight of equipped armor - it wasn't until some point in 0.31.xx that it was changed to also improve the armor's effectiveness at protecting you from harm.
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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 08:44:31 pm »

...
In previous versions (.31 until the hauling update? It's been a while), even copper armour wouldn't slow a raw recruit down. Now it does, and I don't think there have been any numbers to show just how much.
...

0.34.07 (last version before hauling update)
iron armor set as per your OP

base speed 951
no armor user 929/929 (worn/carried)
proficient 943/929
grand master 951/929

Therefore dwarves are slower while wearing armor and unskilled in "armor user" in the most recent versions.

To recap your numbers from the OP were:
base speed 951
no armor user skill 648/648
proficient 815/636
grand master 951/649

Therefore noob armored dwarves are 0.7x as fast since the hauling update. This is equivalent to the enemy being 1.4x faster.

Tryble

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2012, 09:05:39 pm »

Considering how speed is tied to both movement and combat, wearing armor is a pretty major penalty.
Before the hauling update, full armor wasn't nearly as harsh on your speed.

I wonder if outfitting new recruits in leather armor along with training weapons is worth it, in order to get their skills up to par without loading them down too bad?  I doubt speed affects demonstrations, but it ought to be very negative for their sparring and general getting-around-the-fortress during breaks and whatnot.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 10:04:05 pm »

Therefore dwarves are slower while wearing armor and unskilled in "armor user" in the most recent versions.
I did one more quick test, copper armour in 34.04 with a no-skill dwarf. That gave me 924 speed when worn, which is still 97% of the base speed. Even adding two more mail shirts only brought the dwarf's speed down to 904...

The tests I did previously could have been in .31, and in .34 the minor slowdown wasn't enough to register on observation in fortress mode.

I wonder if outfitting new recruits in leather armor along with training weapons is worth it, in order to get their skills up to par without loading them down too bad?  I doubt speed affects demonstrations, but it ought to be very negative for their sparring and general getting-around-the-fortress during breaks and whatnot.
I'm not sure about agility and demonstrations, or whether increased coverage translates into increased opportunities to practice armour use. You'd think it would, but I really don't know if it works that way.

Live weaponry is still fine for sparring.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

rtg593

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Re: Dwarf speed in armour: a quick arena test
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2012, 01:47:16 am »

Interesting... Maybe this explains the massive slowdown adventurers experienced couple versions ago. Same save, between versions, one version slaughtered everything without a scratch, moving the save over I couldn't get within a few tiles of an enemy before I get 30 pages of me failing to dodge, followed by "You are deceased." lots of talk about it over there at first.
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