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Author Topic: Guided minecart injuries  (Read 6902 times)

Tryble

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Guided minecart injuries
« on: June 17, 2012, 04:54:29 pm »

I've been using minecarts in every fortress since they've been released now (and I love them), and other than the very first powered spiral ramp setup I had, they've all been guided tracks.

But I am constantly hospitalizing dwarves, because even though the carts are guided, dwarves are getting crushed  left and right.  Usually it'll be fine most of the time, but every now and then I'll notice a combat report of the *iron minecart* strikes the worker in the right lower leg, shattering the bone! and off he goes to take up a hospital bed.  This is rendering my dwarf rammer completely useless as a controlled injury tool to train the docs as the dwarves are all to ready to hurt themselves guiding my carts.

The tracks these generally happen on are all the same; they're all downward ramps directly down to the mining levels, where people are walking around all the time moving the ore to the linked stockpiles.  There's no nonramp tiles, no stops or anything; it's a straight ramp track down to ground level.  I know they get crazy fast when pushed down that kind of track, but I figured they'd be fine if guided.  Seems like it isn't. 

I don't know if the 'Guide Cart' job is getting interrupted and they let go or what, I haven't been able to track down whatever's causing it.

Anyone else having this problem? 
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Rakushun

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2012, 05:10:34 pm »

I've never had guided cart injuries. They may occur if your track isn't properly designated. Make sure to designate track all the way across every ramp - HRW <- Channel Ramp Wall, designate from H to W. If that doesn't work, have flat sections in between the ramps and maybe even put track stops on them. Your dwarves should just continue guiding them past the stops, but if a cart goes out of control it should stop on its own then.
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Kofthefens

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2012, 05:25:58 pm »

When I read the title I thought this was about homing minecarts...  :(
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darkrider2

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2012, 07:38:14 pm »

When I read the title I thought this was about homing minecarts...  :(

Someone has to do this, possibly combine it with the dwarven shotgun technique, you could cover five hallways with one shotgun instead of just one.
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UristMcWanderer

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2012, 07:48:11 pm »

I've never managed to get minecarts and tracks laid down yet, but I think guiding a minecart involves the guiding dwarf pulling the minecart behind him. Ergo, when the minecart hits a downward slope, it shoves the dwarf down and runs him over, thus leading to your broken-legged workers.

This is just my guess.
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darkrider2

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2012, 07:51:46 pm »

Quote
When set to "Guide", minecarts seem to ignore all laws of physics. They:

- Ignore the weight of any and all items inside. Therefore:
     - Move at the speed of the dwarf that is guiding them. It is thus recommended to pick the most agile of your dwarves for cart-guiding tasks.
- Ignore working rollers.
- Will not collide with other guided carts even when a full frontal collision would be expected.
- Will go up ramps like nobody's business.

From the DF wiki.

I was able to have a dwarf push a minecart up 10 levels when it was chock full of granite blocks.
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Tryble

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2012, 08:36:57 pm »

I've never managed to get minecarts and tracks laid down yet, but I think guiding a minecart involves the guiding dwarf pulling the minecart behind him. Ergo, when the minecart hits a downward slope, it shoves the dwarf down and runs him over, thus leading to your broken-legged workers.


A dwarf guiding a cart pushes it one tile ahead of him.

It's weird.  I occasinally [f]ollow a dwarf doing a Push Cart job, and he generally makes it through the track alright.  And given the number of moving carts in my fort, I'd have to wager that there's accidents less than 5% of the time. 

Every now and then, though, I'll see that random combat report that details a dwarf getting crushed by angered minecarts.  I don't know if they're getting interrupted, or losing hold at random because of the entirely-sloped track, or smashing the cart 'accidentally' into an annoying acquaintance, or what. 
The thing that's got me most confused is that the carts are functioning perfectly so often.  I watch dwarves successfully unload carts from the mines all the time.   Somethin' weird is going on.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 08:40:10 pm by Tryble »
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Rakushun

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 12:35:02 am »

I've never managed to get minecarts and tracks laid down yet, but I think guiding a minecart involves the guiding dwarf pulling the minecart behind him. Ergo, when the minecart hits a downward slope, it shoves the dwarf down and runs him over, thus leading to your broken-legged workers.


A dwarf guiding a cart pushes it one tile ahead of him.

It's weird.  I occasinally [f]ollow a dwarf doing a Push Cart job, and he generally makes it through the track alright.  And given the number of moving carts in my fort, I'd have to wager that there's accidents less than 5% of the time. 

Every now and then, though, I'll see that random combat report that details a dwarf getting crushed by angered minecarts.  I don't know if they're getting interrupted, or losing hold at random because of the entirely-sloped track, or smashing the cart 'accidentally' into an annoying acquaintance, or what. 
The thing that's got me most confused is that the carts are functioning perfectly so often.  I watch dwarves successfully unload carts from the mines all the time.   Somethin' weird is going on.

My friend, you have a minecart gremlin. *not literally
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Finndibaenn

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 01:20:12 am »

are you sure the injured party is the guiding dwarf and not a passer by ?
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Tryble

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 01:53:48 am »

are you sure the injured party is the guiding dwarf and not a passer by ?

As to that I have no clue.  The only dwarves with the push cart labor are the unimportant hauler dwarves; the same ones who walk along those track to fill the stockpiles.  The ones getting hurt are probably the pedestrians, but all my haulers have the same name and profession so I never could tell for sure.

I guess it's not really a big deal...I usually build a track specifically for hurting dwarves to train the docs, but if they keep hurting themselves I guess I can just drop that from my fort designs and remain just as efficient.  /shrug
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CaptApollo12

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 02:13:07 am »

The problem I have is that dwarves like to use your minecart ramps to path to. I am currently working on a method of launching the carts to an unpathable delivery system that will come out on a pathable place. (Like minecart only stairwell.)
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brucemo

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 07:40:31 pm »

I'm going to reply to this old thread because it is the top Google result for guided minecart injuries.

I would like to say that I've had this happen when guiding carts up and down ramps. I've also had it happen once when guiding a cart through a very congested area, and I've had it happen once when a dwarf gave birth while guiding a cart.

I think the problem does exist and is not a hallucination. I'm moving magma up a ramp, like I've done in several forts, but some forts seem to be cursed by these injuries. My current fort has this problem, and I've checked the track several times and it's fine. It works fine, then boom, broken spine. I haven't be able to figure out if it's the cart pusher or a bystander who gets hurt.

I think the issue may be other dwarfs whizzing around with wheelbarrows, or pets following their owners around, but I have no evidence to support this other than that both things are happening in my fort.

If I do get to the bottom of this I'll post another reply.
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snjwffl

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 08:34:53 pm »

Since this (seemingly) only occurs on ramps, could it be tied to the bug that makes impulse ramps work?
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Larix

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2013, 02:38:13 am »

Unlikely, since it looks like guided minecarts completely ignore terrain they pass over.

My suspicion is that those are collisions with bypassers, not carts striking the guiding dwarf. Most of those accidents should be preventable by separating cart tracks from normal foot traffic areas, reducing the amount of intersections, increasing the traffic cost and widening walkable pathways.

Dwarfs can get struck by the cart they were guiding, but only if they get interrupted and let go while the cart is on a ramp tile. Normally, guided minecarts are extremely safe: i have a ~120z route of mostly straight down ramps which i eventually switched to guided traffic (because kids of haulers kept running onto the track), and the only accident was when i wanted to 'F'ollow a cart while it was guided upstairs and accidentally hit 'f' - and the hauler instantly let go of the 'forbidden' cart.
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morlicar

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Re: Guided minecart injuries
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 11:24:42 am »

I had this issue in my last fort, which had a guided minecart track from the surface to the magma sea.  Every few years I'd get minecart related injuries for the guider and sometimes others who happened to be below him on the track.  I had one death from a dwarf being knocked into a wall and bashing his brain in.

Given the low frequency of these accidents, I assumed but could not prove-nor did I do too much research, that the guider went on break (or stopped to drink from his flask, never actually caught the accident when it actually happened) when the minecart was on a ramp and it rolled back onto the poor sap, then continued down the track until it hit a track stop; hitting more dwarves, cats, dogs, whatever on the way.
 
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