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Author Topic: Advanced World Gen !Science!  (Read 16282 times)

SAFry

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2012, 03:26:36 pm »

Before I get distracted again, here are the results of which parameters are safe to change or not without effecting the implementation of the seed.

Basically I've found some are safe to change, like end year wont make it a different world. Some confusingly don't seem to change the implementation if you make a small change but do if you make a large one. Others seem to be very sensitive and even a small change will radically change the implementation of the seed. I say again, this is not due to rejections unless it's some kind of meta invisible rejection that isn't reported. Also I obviously couldn't have time to check every parameter with a large range of settings so this should be considered a first pass and not in all cases definitive.

[DIM:129:129] - not safe
   [EMBARK_POINTS:1324] - safe
   [END_YEAR:10] - safe
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:80] - safe
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1] - safe
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0] - safe
   [ELEVATION:1:400:401:401] - all 4 setting can withstand a small change but not safe, also note max elevation less then 400 will cause mountain peak rejects
   [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200] - min max small change, x y are very sensitive
   [TEMPERATURE:25:75:200:200] - all very sensitive
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200] - min max small change, x y very sensitive
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200] - min max small change, x y very sensitive, volcanism less then 100 causes min volcano rejections
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200] - min max very sensitive, x y small change
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] - all the meshes: turning on a mesh not safe, changing weights was inconclusive, one small change seemed to be ok, not sure
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [MINERAL_SCARCITY:2500] - safe
   [MEGABEAST_CAP:18] - safe
   [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:37] - safe
   [TITAN_NUMBER:9] - safe
   [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000] -safe
   [DEMON_NUMBER:28] - safe
   [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:14] -safe
   [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:14] - safe
   [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:14] - safe
   [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:14] - safe
   [SECRET_NUMBER:28] - safe
   [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28] - safe
   [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28] - safe
   [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:14] - safe
   [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:14] - safe
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0] - safe
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:0:0:0] - safe
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12] - safe
   [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1] - might get away with small change, not safe
   [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0] - not safe
   [VOLCANO_MIN:3] - safe
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0] - didn't check any rejection parameters but expect they are safe, too fiddly to check
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250] - safe
   [RIVER_MINS:100:100] - safe
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1] - safe
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1] - safe
   [SUBREGION_MAX:2750] - safe
   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3] - safe
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0] - safe
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100] -safe
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0] -safe
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100] -safe
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0] - safe
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100] - safe
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1] - not safe, the option that say 'magma layer' inside the create world using advanced parameters interface in DF
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1] - safe
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15] - safe
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5] - safe
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1] - safe
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1] - safe
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1] - safe
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2] - safe
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1] - safe
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5] - safe
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25] - safe
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25] - safe
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:50] - safe
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0] - safe
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2] - safe
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40] - safe
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000] - safe
   [SITE_CAP:1040] - safe
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1] - safe
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0] - more rejection parameters, didn't check
   [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]

God, I hope somebody uses that information one day, I've got a headache now.

knutor

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2012, 03:54:46 pm »

This table is to determine the re-usability of pregenerated seeds, between parameter sets, I'm figuring.  Never thought of doing that.  Cool.  Good info, well worth the headache.  Thanks for sharing it.  Hope your headache goes away, I'm run now and take a little nap.  Kinda got a little headache too up there inbetween my eyeballs too. 

Surprised me to see [RIVER_MINS:100:100] - safe, while [DIM:129:129] - not safe.  For some reason in the back of my head, I always want to subtract rivers and lakes from the overall WG dimensions.  I cannot sail them, cross them or swim them without ships, I guess, so I figure them unnecessary crawspaces.

Knutor
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SAFry

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2012, 04:38:48 pm »

Just to double check I just tried [RIVER_MINS:100:100], [RIVER_MINS:0:0], [RIVER_MINS:300:300] and [RIVER_MINS:300:0] and they all generated the same world, the pattern of the mountain peaks etc was identical. I would post pics but it takes twice as long to put pics up as it does to run the tests.

Knutor, I enjoy your enthusiasm and you thirst for knowledge but I do wonder sometimes if we're talking about the same thing!

OK how about this for a test [BEAST_END_YEAR:30:80], then megabeasts and semimegabeasts to 0 and titans to 10. When do you think the history will end (using the same pocket world seed I posted earlier). If you are right and titans don't come into it then it should end at 30 years right?

megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 10, end year 1050
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 9, end year 1050
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 8, end year 279
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 7, end year 252 (ran this twice just to check, same end year both times)
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 6, end year 266
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 5, end year 427
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 4, end year 211
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 3, end year 30
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 2, end year 30
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 1, end year 30
megabeasts 0, semimegabeasts 0, titans 0, end year 30

Try it yourself if you don't believe me
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 You've convinced me that it DOES ALSO check megabeasts contrary to popular belief but surely after this test you can't still say titans aren't counted too?

Anyway, tomorrow I'm moving onto meshes and then hopefully we can get onto necro towers and civilisations.

*edit* actually Knutor I should say thanks for convincing me about megabeasts because I though [TITAN_NUMBER:X] defined the number of titans, megabeasts and semimegabeasts and the other two option merely define the number of available caves. I think titans are boring so now I can pump up the level of beasts without putting up the level of titans which has helped me improve my personal recipes! :)

« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 04:58:19 pm by SAFry »
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knutor

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2012, 09:41:41 pm »

Ha, your the superior scientist SAFry.  Grats!

I ruled Titans out without processing enough figures.  DF doesn't round up.  1,2,3, or 4 Titans stops at 30yr and rolls out no history, when the rate is 80%.  Because at 80% Titan deaths,  when 1,2,3, or 4 Titans exist, become a decimal less than 1 occurs for the surviving Titans, with 4 Titans leaving an 8/10 of a Titan when 80% are slain, or .8 living Titans, not a full one, and so I guess that is what puts the breaks on my SCIENCE.  DF must need atleast 1 whole numbered Titan to figure in and roll out a history.  So it will stop, thinking 80% deaths have occurred.  A little tricky.  So in a way, we both were right.  Cept I could have worked harder at solving that.

Titans and Megabeasts determine premature history stops.  I updated wiki, hows this read:

Percentage of Beasts Dead for Stoppage

The world starts out with a certain number of megabeasts and titans in existence. If this percentage of megabeasts and titans dies during history generation, then history generation will stop early. For example if the value is 80% slain, and history starts with 200 megabeasts and titans and 160 of them are killed by historical events or otherwise die before End Year is reached, history generation will stop prematurely.


Do you think something in there should be said about Semimegabeasts not counting?  Oh crap, I better do more crunching to make sure I didn't do a rounding error with Semi's like I did in ruling out Titans...  I'll check that, before changing it more.  Oops, man rounding error on them, aswell.  Semimegabeasts do count.  Well I'm glad you started this thread, my brain got tweaked here. 

Updating Wiki to clarify all three types of megafauna count for that kill ratio.

Knutor
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 10:16:03 pm by knutor »
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Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.

knutor

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2012, 10:02:23 pm »

Sir, some SCIENCE for the Science Officer SAFry.

Four legends views of four seperate 17x17 worlds made with zero for both types of caves, produced 0 population of Kobolds.  I'm confident in saying to exterminate Kobolds from a world set both mountain caves and non-mountain caves to 0.  This will stop the Kobold civilization from spawning in every world.  Oddly it doesn't do much stop Lairs, they still occur. 

I'm a lil bit tired here, going bug eyed.  I noticed the Wiki is wrong for (non-)mountain caves.  The parameter ranges go completely to 0 now, not 1-xxx, like Wiki says in its  table.  Should I fix that?  Ya think?  Error is right here in that table, eak gads look at that hypertext!  I'm not touching that table, it has code.   I really suck at coding, don't wanna be the one who screws up the Wiki.  Here it is if anyone wants to update it.  1 needs changed to 0, and some info about Kobold Civilization added in verbage.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2012:Advanced_world_generation&action=edit&section=69

Knutor
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 10:27:30 pm by knutor »
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Eric Blank

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2012, 11:59:13 pm »

Knutor, you neglected to mention bronze colossi in your list of megabeasts. In part of my testing here, I singled out bronze colossi as the only megabeast (by deleting the others form the raws) and ran the test. Indeed, when the collosi died, they would trigger the end of worldgen. Split between the 4 other beasts (I actually have a fifthas well due to modding) it may not be as appreciable, but I don't see any reason the game would exclude them.

I performed an experiment of my own with the default pocket world, duplicated, with the megabeast, semi-megabeast, and titan populations reduced to 0, and the beast stoppage parameters set to 2 years, 1% beasts dead. All 4 seeds set to 1234567890.

Independent variable: # of beasts of each category
Dependent variables: year worldgen ends and whether it was caused by the death of a megabeast

Tested with titan/beast/semibeast params set to 0/0/0:

  World 1:
    End year: 2
    Concluded reason: lack of any sort of applicable creatures.

    Further worlds redacted due to being identical.

Tested with titan/beast/semibeast params set to 0/2/0:

  World 1:
    End year: 18
    Concluded reason: death of a megabeast (50% of population, > 1% minimum to stop.) in year 17.

    Further worlds redacted due to being identical.

Tested with titan/beast/semibeast params set to 2/0/0:

  World 1:
    End year: 206
    Concluded reason: death of titan in 205.

    No other worlds generated.

Tested with titan/beast/semibeast params set to 0/0/2:

  World 1:
    End year: 2
    Concluded reason: lack of applicable beasts.

    No other worlds generated.

I redid the experiment, letting the seeds be randomized, and it would stop worldgen at radically different times but for the same reason: one of the two beasts/titans died. One world generated for over 600 years before a titan was finally killed. This supports the idea that only megabeasts and titans are counted.

I also continued testing with 10 megabeasts and 25% maximum casualties for surrender (harhar) and I set the absolute end year to 10000, so there's more chance the cap will be reached before it forces worldgen to end (because it isn't really helpful for the experiment to be interrupted.) Dividing ten into four parts does not result in an integer, so this was also a test to help me understand what the hell knutor is trying to say about the
I expected it to fail with the loss of 2-3 beasts.

Results;

Tested with titan/beast/semibeast params set to 0/10/0:

  World 1:
    End year: 2098
    Concluded reason: I ran out of patience and stopped it.
      The reason it didn't end is that the megabeasts managed to procreate enough to keep their population up. God damnit. At the time I stopped gen, there were exactly 10 dragons (of the two applicable varieties I have in my RAWS, dragons and emperor dragons). Additionally, the initial megabeast population wasn't dying rapidly, so it probably never dropped below 8 living megabeasts. (if there were 7 beasts alive, then >25% of the initial amount would be dead and worldgen would thus end. This worked consistently when testing with only colossi.)

I'm done for the night. I'll consider using only bronze colossi in the megabeast portion, because they don't breed. >:(
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SAFry

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 01:26:30 am »

Cool, now we got our Bunson burners on high and our lab coats splattered with ichor! I think we've definitely done enough to justify a re-write of the following sections of the wiki:

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Advanced_world_generation#Beast_control

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Advanced_world_generation#Max_Megabeast_Caves

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Advanced_world_generation#Max_Semi-Megabeast_Caves

I want to finish my boring geographical research into meshes next but if you guys want to kick about theories about [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:X] and [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:X] and how they relate to kobolds or beasts then feel free.

I have to go to Essex tonight (the real Essex not one of those crazy American Essexes) so might go quiet for a bit but will be back on the case Friday. 

*edit* oh also, the wiki lists the following creatures as Megabeasts, colossus, dragon, hydra, roc and semi-megabeasts are, cyclops, ettin, giant and minotaur here http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Creatures

No mention of Wyrms at all in the list, this isn't right, I've fought them myself? So are dragons megabeasts and are they counted and where do wyrms fit in and why aren't they in the wiki?

« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 01:42:20 am by SAFry »
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knutor

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2012, 10:05:59 am »

@SAFry, Have a nice trip.  Hope Essex isn't anywhere near London.  Olympics are there soon, prolly tons of traffic and preparations going on.

@Eric Blank, I did forget it.  *bonk self*  TY for correction.  Yup..
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Creatures#Megabeasts

I performed an experiment of my own with the default pocket world, duplicated, with the megabeast, semi-megabeast, and titan populations reduced to 0, and the beast stoppage parameters set to 2 years, 1% beasts dead. All 4 seeds set to 1234567890.

Tested with titan/beast/semibeast params set to 2/0/0:
Tested with titan/beast/semibeast params set to 0/2/0:
Tested with titan/beast/semibeast params set to 0/0/2:

I'm not sure what your megafauna kill rate was on that test, looks like ya said, .01?
1% beasts dead
Pocket default is .8 or 80%.
If pocket defaults is used, with sample sizes under 5, decimal truncation problems popup.  SAFry's use of 10, instead of 1, as sample size was a stroke of genius.  80% of 2 is what? 1.6, so when 1.6 of the 2 megafauna expire, that leaves 2-1.6 left.  Or a 0.4 megafauna entity.  And it doesn't appear to count him as 1. Take care, Knutor
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 10:08:17 am by knutor »
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SAFry

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2012, 10:08:36 am »

knutor, had a chance to read your posts properly during the day, I think you've confused yourself a bit, there is no evidence that semimegabeasts count towards the beast end year. In mine and Eric's experiments there has been no scenario where semimegabeasts have prevented the world ending prematurely, I think the first statement you posted for the wiki was more correct.

It's not just the mountain caves but the non mountain ones too so the code you need would be:

Code: [Select]
{| {{prettytable}}
|- bgcolor="#dddddd"
! Token
! Example
! Notes
|-
| <tt><nowiki>[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:<number>]</nowiki></tt>
| <tt><nowiki>[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:100]</nowiki></tt>
| rowspan="2" | Range: 0 to 800
|-
| <tt><nowiki>[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:<number>]</nowiki></tt>
| <tt><nowiki>[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:200]</nowiki></tt>
|}

Eric, thanks for independently verifying my results, you've made it more statistically significant by using a different seed too, cheers!

Eric Blank

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2012, 11:54:40 am »

I'm not sure what your megafauna kill rate was on that test, looks like ya said, .01?
1% beasts dead
Pocket default is .8 or 80%.
If pocket defaults is used, with sample sizes under 5, decimal truncation problems popup.  SAFry's use of 10, instead of 1, as sample size was a stroke of genius.  80% of 2 is what? 1.6, so when 1.6 of the 2 megafauna expire, that leaves 2-1.6 left.  Or a 0.4 megafauna entity.  And it doesn't appear to count him as 1. Take care, Knutor

I wasn't testing for that variable anyway: I was using a small percentage to ensure that it would stop immediately after 1 of the 2 beasts was dead, which it did (within 1-4 years afterwards.) I was testing to see what the game considers a megabeast.

if there are two beasts, and one dies, then 50% of the initial population is now gone, which is >1%. it worked well enough for my purposes. I can test with this decimal truncation in mind today.
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

knutor

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2012, 12:53:48 pm »

Yes!  Your correct, SAFry and Eric Blank.

First change was better, no Semimegabeasts, it is.  I should have known that.  *bonkself* Just Titan and Megabeasts.  I updated what I could, but I think it would look better if put in a table.  Knutor
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SAFry

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2012, 05:32:02 pm »

OK, time for my next round of experiments this time regarding meshes.

The weighted mesh ranges are split in to 5 20% groups, 0-20, 20-40, 40-60, 60-80 and 80-100. Don't ask me why the overlap, like why it isn't 21-40, I don't know!

If the minima/maxima for the range is 0-100 then the split seems quite simple but if the range is like temperature, 25-75 by default, what does that mean for the mesh? Does the mesh override the min/max or does it fit itself to the available range of min/max?

In order to test this I've used some information we've already established in this thread, I set the drainage to [DRAINAGE:0:0:300:300]  so zero drainage, then I turned off the [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:0], then I set the rainfall to [RAINFALL:0:10:200:200] so 0 to 10 rainfall. This should produce 100% sandy desert, I got this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, that was slightly unexpected, still a bit of green, the wiki says rainfall 0-10 is desert, turns out that's not quite true. Tried max rainfall 9 then 8 as shown below

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

both had very similar results, the one shown is max 8, 100% desert, I went with 8 because the maths is easier.

Next I set the rainfall to min 0 max 40, this should produce about 1/5th sand desert, I got this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I guess that's about right. OK, so the next experiment is to try it with the mesh on, I set the rainfall mesh to 2x2 and leave the distribution weights at 1.1.1.1.1 this should give roughly the same results:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well, that's about right too, on to the actual experiment.

So if we have a min/max of 0-40, in theory if I set the weighted range to 100% in the 0-20 range that should translate to 100% in the 0-8 range IF the weighted ranges fit themselves to the available min-max. So we should see 100% sand desert with [RAIN_FREQUENCY:2:1:0:0:0:0] Here is what I got:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh, that's not what I was expecting. Still it also suggests that the mesh IS fitting itself to the available range as the map isn't 100% 0-20 rainfall either (which would produce about 50% sand desert). That's still about a 5th or so desert, so on a hunch I try stepping up the mesh size to the max for a medium map 16x16 and I got this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

We're back to about 95% sand desert? So I had assumed that the mesh size was like the granularity of the areas, so a 2x2 mesh would make lots of little areas and a 16x16 mesh would make large areas. However it seems that a 2x2 mesh takes effect on less of the map then a 16x16 mesh which effects almost all of the map.

Next test to try to verify this is to reverse the weights, try a 16x16 with 100% in the 80-100 range:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Interesting, this has no desert, it seems more effective then the previous test but generally supports the theory.

Final test is to try the 100% rain in the 80-100 range with a 2x2 mesh:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ok, well we have some desert but possibly less then we had with no mesh? Less then 5th? Possibly, the deserts look more 'bitty' and broken up.

In conclusion, it's not definite but I think this series of tests would suggest 2 things about meshes:

A) That the weighted mesh range operates within the previously defined minima and maxima. Whatever range is defined by the min/max is split into the five 20% groups for the weighted mesh. In this example 0-40 rainfall meant that the 0-20 range would give a rainfall of 0-8. More tests could prove this completely.

B) That the mesh size defines how much of the overall map is effected, 2x2 being the low end which only slightly effects the map and 16x16 being the max, for a medium map, that has an almost universal effect on the map.

I think that concludes everything I wanted to know about meshes.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 05:37:02 pm by SAFry »
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knutor

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2012, 06:48:22 pm »

I can explain the overlaps.  I think of them as 5 fields.  Not with cattle, but fields of data sets.  0-20, being the least extreme, 80-100, being the most extreme.  We are picking a frequency, remember, a Hertz-like unit. More or less peaks and valleys, in a scrunched up sin wave.  To find just the right frequency to crack glass, could take awhile.  The meshing of frequencies is like a guitar riff.  I would imagine, we could take some of the best riffs and backward song write them them into an Elevation, Drainage, Rainfall, etc.. spline.  Riff/Spline-Spline/Riff

Be cool to see the biome map from legends for some of this, as well.  And also, I'd love to know the subregion stat, you were using.  As that will determine heavily how many free radicalsmeshes get licked and stamped on the finished splines.  Knutor
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 06:53:15 pm by knutor »
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SAFry

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2012, 01:06:39 am »

The subregions was set to [SUBREGION_MAX:2750], the whole series of experiments was done using the 'blank' parameter set I posted at the beginning of the thread.

It is an interesting point, what if the number of subregions on a 2x2 mesh map was, like you say, being squashed by the subregion count. OK, I think I need to do another experiment, on a 129x129 dim map the total number of squares is 16641. So if a 2x2 mesh was making lots of very small subregions the [SUBREGION_MAX:2750] count would stop it with only about 1/6th of the map covered. I should increase the subregion count to 16641 and see what the 2x2 mesh map looks like.

Good point well made Knutor! although your musing on overlaps is frankly bizarre  ;D

*edit*

Oh, the maximum setting for [SUBREGION_MAX:X] is 5000, might have to try on a 65x65 small map (which has an area of 4225) but on the 129x129 medium map with [SUBREGION_MAX:5000] using a 2x2 mesh and 100% 0-20 rainfall the effect was not immediately apparent. You might be right Knutor, I may need to use the legends viewer to get the exact counts of biomes, will have another play tonight.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 01:53:12 am by SAFry »
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SAFry

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Re: Advanced World Gen !Science!
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2012, 10:44:19 am »

Turns out [SUBREGION_MAX:X] is a rejection parameter and doesn't effect world generation, on a small 65x65 world I had to turn it down to [SUBREGION_MAX:100] before I even started getting any rejections. It was worth testing and I will be using the maximum setting of 5000 for my worlds in future but it doesn't seem to have any influence of the effect of the meshes.
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