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Are you gonna get Pokemon Sword or Pokemon Shield?

I ATTAC
- 8 (15.4%)
I PROTECC
- 6 (11.5%)
Waiting on the third one
- 2 (3.8%)
Waiting on the third AND fourth one
- 1 (1.9%)
GET WELL SOON ZYGARDE
- 5 (9.6%)
I am a concientous objector and abstain from taking up arms
- 30 (57.7%)

Total Members Voted: 51


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Author Topic: A Thread about the Pokemans: POKEMANS ON MOTORCYCLES  (Read 636202 times)

umiman

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6225 on: September 13, 2017, 07:45:13 pm »

Awhile back Showdown randoms would throw in fanmons as well as the regular ones.

My impressions for most of them was mostly how the artstyle completely clashes with the regular style. It's just really hard to accept them. Also most of those Showdown ones were fucking overpowered.

I actually thought Volcanion was a fanmon when it first came out. It has all the makings of one.

xaritscin

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6226 on: September 13, 2017, 09:03:57 pm »

Terrain moves were actually introduced in gen 6, it's just that the surge abilities (that caused terrain upon switching in) weren't introduced until 7

im not really versed on gen 6-7.

however looking at the wiki it seems there's only 2 terrains right now in Uranium. Grassy Terrain is unimplemented and Electric seems to be tied to a legendary that hasnt come out. basically there's only misty terrain and poison terrain.

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Culise

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6227 on: September 13, 2017, 10:23:30 pm »

im not really versed on gen 6-7.

however looking at the wiki it seems there's only 2 terrains right now in Uranium. Grassy Terrain is unimplemented and Electric seems to be tied to a legendary that hasnt come out. basically there's only misty terrain and poison terrain.
Interesting.  Poison Terrain must be a fan move they introduced.  The only four terrain moves in standard Pokemon are Electric, Grassy, Misty, and Psychic.
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xaritscin

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6228 on: September 13, 2017, 10:57:13 pm »

its actually called Sticky Terrain (sorry for the typo). but yeah its a poison type move.

it basically prevents using priority moves.
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umiman

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6229 on: September 13, 2017, 11:01:25 pm »

its actually called Sticky Terrain (sorry for the typo). but yeah its a poison type move.

it basically prevents using priority moves.
Isn't that what psychic terrain does?

xaritscin

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6230 on: September 13, 2017, 11:04:22 pm »

its actually called Sticky Terrain (sorry for the typo). but yeah its a poison type move.

it basically prevents using priority moves.
Isn't that what psychic terrain does?

that move was implemented in Gen VII so yeah, it was convergence i guess. it only does that currently, maybe it could do a thing on its own but im not sure if the new devs will implement Gen VII stuff here. i dont think so.
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umiman

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6231 on: September 14, 2017, 06:27:34 pm »

By the way, I want to talk about one of my favorite Pokemon.

Tyranitar


I really like this guy. He usually features as one of my core members of any of my teams, alongside Volcarona. I first started using him simply because the dude looks super badass. Also a pseudolegendary. Cool as shit.

At first glance he looks really trashcan. I mean, look at his weaknesses:

Quote
4x weak to fighting, and weak to ground, bug, steel, water, grass, and fairy.

You'd think he'd just collapse to basically anything.

But behind that ridiculous number of weaknesses is one of the most versatile and consistently powerful Pokemon in the entire series's history.

Alongside the weaknesses are a lot of potent resistances. In the previous generation, Tyranitar was the premier check against Talonflame, who was frigging everywhere. Additionally, he's one ridiculously powerful special wall. With sandstorm up and its native 50% resistance to special attacks due to rock typing, it meant he could tank supereffective hits provided they weren't too powerful. So those weaknesses were a lot less deceptive than they appeared, especially combined with just how tanky Tyranitar is naturally.

And then comes my favorite part. I always have a big hard-on for unpredictable Pokemon. And Tyranitar is one of the reigning champions of unpredictable. Due to his superb stats and being decent at special attacks while being incredible at physical, this massive mountain man can do all of the following:

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1. ice fang
2. fire fang
3. crunch
4. rock slide
5. stone edge
6. earthquake
7. ice beam (!!!)
8. fire blast (!!!)
9.  thunderbolt (!!!)
10. flamethrower (!!!)
11. focus blast
12. thunder wave
13. toxic
14. dragon tail
15. pursuit
16. dragon dance

And that's just his moves. What about his items? You can run Tyranitar with basically anything from megaevolution, leftovers, lum berry, choice band, choice scarf, z stone, etc. etc. etc.

What this culmulates in is a Pokemon that's almost completely unpredictable. When fighting against Tyranitar you know it obviously can't bring ALL the coverage moves... but it definitely is bringing something. Is it ice beam? Fire blast? Is it going for dragon dance + substitute? So you have to play really defensive around it or take the risk that it won't 1HKO your Gliscor. Hell, I don't think a single person I've ever fought expected the thunder wave from my Tyranitar. My set was thunder wave + protect + stone edge + crunch. People do all sorts of crazy things with him, hence his popularity.

But of course, this thing isn't invincible. It has plenty of weaknesses, chief among which is its slow speed. Another big weakness is... uh... all its weaknesses. Shit is weak to a lot of really common things, especially if they're physical attacks. While it probably won't die to a single earthquake, it will be obliterated by stuff like mach punch or close combat. This makes it a bit of a mindgame to try and figure out how to use it properly. A newbie who doesn't know the typings well cannot hope to properly use Tyranitar. Not to mention it has no way of extending its own life other than leftovers or berries.

But if you figure out all the nuances, you'll find one of the consistently most popular Pokemon for good reason. It's extremely flexible, unpredictable, and brutal. But at the same time it doesn't feel cheesy or lame. When you lose to Tyranitar, you don't feel like there's nothing you can do. It's not overpowered by any means, but I think it is the very definition of strong. I think all Pokemon with dreams of being top tier should look to Tyranitar as a baseline.

xaritscin

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6232 on: September 15, 2017, 09:00:25 am »

what about its habilities?
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umiman

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6233 on: September 15, 2017, 10:21:32 am »

what about its habilities?
It almost always is used with sand stream. That summons a sand storm when it switches in, hence the 50% boost to special defense due to being a rock type. Also does chip damage to enemies and is yet another reason why Shedinja almost never sees the light of day. As it'd die instantly. Sand stream is also fairly easy to counter though, just like most of Tyranitar's moveset. You can send another weather type in, or use something with anti-weather, or just use a rock / ground / steel type to smash through it.

However, in multi battles you will probably come across a Tyranitar with Unnerve. This makes it so the enemy can't eat berries. This is brutal in multi battles where practically everyone has berries. In multi battles Tyranitar tends to be played more as a support as it really dies too fast otherwise. After all, it's bad enough trying to juggle weaknesses in single battles. Can you imagine the difficulty when there's two or three enemies to defend against?

Also there's way too many enemies using intimidate in multi battles. It's why people tend to use special attacks in those modes. So you'll see Tyranny-boy use special attacks too like fire blast and ice beam. And protect just so it can live.

Reudh

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6234 on: September 15, 2017, 11:40:30 am »

For my next pokemon review, I'm going to talk about one of my perennial favourites, Mienshao. Unlike my previous pokemon posts, Mienshao is actually quite viable.



Easily my favourite Fighting type pokemon, and in my top 3 for design. Mienshao is a pokemon clearly designed after shaolin monks, with its long "sleeves" being reminiscent of the Chinese shéng biāo or Japanese Johyou, an interesting subset of martial arts where centrifugal force is used to slash at the enemy with rope darts.
Mienshao's names in various languages are generally a play on the words for "weasel" and "kung fu" or other martial arts.

English/Spanish/Italian; Mienshao: comes from "ermine" and "shaolin"
Japanese name Kojondo / コジョンド comes from " オコジョ okojo (ermine) and Taekwondo
French Shaofouine comes from "shaolin" and "fouine" (weasel)
and the German "Wie-shu" comes from the frankly quite simple "Wiesel" (weasel) and "Wu-shu".

Mienshao is quite clearly designed as a frail speedster fighting type. It possesses two abilities, Inner Focus (a fairly common ability amongst Fighting types; blocks flinches from occurring altogether) and the amazing Regenerator (heal 33% HP on switching out), and the also useful Reckless (a good ability; powers up recoil/crash moves by 20%, with Mienshao's primary STAB High Jump Kick being a crash move, this makes it rather strong).

Mienshao is blessed with a base stat total of 510; a fairly nice total, with an obviously "frail speedster" archetype of stat distribution.

Mienshao's stat distribution is as follows:
65/125/60/95/60/105.

65/60/60 defenses are pretty pitiful, and it usually ensures Mienshao won't be staying in long, or wanting to switch in to even resisted moves too often; it's super duper fragile. Even resisted STAB moves will do considerable damage. Priority moves also give it a hard time, with papery defenses.
Mercifully if it buggers up in some way, you can back it out in a hurry with a 105 base speed U-Turn, or just hard switch and heal with Regenerator.

The good: Its 105 base speed is very, very good for the UU tier, only really outsped by Azelf, Raikou and common Scarf users. I wouldn't go throwing it around in OU where its weaknesses are common and its speed of 105 isn't quite so impressive anymore, but it's certainly one of the best Fighting types in UU.
It has a superb 125 base Attack, equivalent to fellow fighting UU member Heracross, and quite surprisingly a usable 95 Special Attack, ensuring it's somewhat less predictable than a straight physical Fighting type. It even gets access to Lucario's not-really-signature move Aura Sphere.

Mienshao also has quite a wide movepool, with plenty of utility. It gets access to Detect, and both of the Guard moves (Quick Guard, blocks priority; Wide Guard, blocks AOE moves like Earthquake).
It has the always amazing High Jump Kick, a base 130 power Fighting type move; the most powerful Fighting type move besides Focus Punch, which fails if the user is hit at all and operates at a negative priority, and stronger than both Focus Blast (base 120, 70 accuracy, special) and Close Combat (base 120, accuracy 100, physical, drops def and spdef of user). High Jump Kick comes at a pretty major cost though: if it misses, and it will, the user loses 50% of its HP. If Mienshao misses a HJK, it's likely it'll faint, because a 50% HP Mienshao is a sitting duck unless it can U-turn out safely. Still, 125 attack, 130 BP STAB move, and access to the Life Orb + Reckless combo for +30+20% more damage on HJK, it'll blow holes in anything without needing excessive setup. It's also rather weirdly capable of being a weather setter; i suppose it's not bad in that regard; it's fast, and you certainly wouldn't expect a Mienshao to set up Sunny Day for a fire team, as well as having Rest/Talk without the bulk to utilise it. It also has Psych Up; you could probably do some kind of hilarious gimmick strat with a Sashed Mienshao Psych Up against a foe that has already set up but it outspeeds to become even tougher. Mienshao also has Swords Dance, but it's probably not going to be able to live long enough without excessive support to get the boosts off. It has a moderately fast Taunt.

It has a fair amount of coverage. Like many fighting types, it carries Rock Slide and Stone Edge to deal with Flying types, and Poison Jab to get past Fairies that resist Fighting and its other common coverage moves like Stone Edge, Knock Off and U-Turn. It also has access to Low Sweep and Fake Out, both of which are generally preferred over HJK if being played in Doubles, as Mienshao can do a utility/support role with something like Fake Out/Low Sweep/Taunt/Wide or Quick Guard. Incidentally, the two Guards make it a fantastic doubles partner for Aegislash or the aforementioned Tyranitar. Protect being basically mandatory in doubles makes HJK considerably more risky, and Low Sweep is still a decentish move that has a 100% chance to drop speed, always a useful move in that regard.

Its special movepool is rather small, being just Aura Sphere, Swift, Hidden Power, Round, Focus Blast and Grass Knot, but it's always amusing to blow past a physical wall with tiny special defenses with Focus Blast or HP Ground or Dark. Grass Knot is basically useless, because anything weak to Grass Knot is hit neutrally by Fighting anyway, maybe with the exception of Quilfish and Toxapex and it's slightly unreliable damage-wise.

Now, its movepool downsides.
Let's say you're using its Life Orb set. Knock Off/U-Turn/HJK/Poison Jab, Fake Out or Stone Edge. (You could even run HP Ice, which would let you deal with Gligar and maybe Gliscor, who would otherwise wall it.)

Knock Off is mediocre in power. U-Turn also has mediocre power. HJK is risky on a miss, and naturally has a 10% miss chance. Stone Edge is required to have it cover flying types instead of fleeing, but as we all know Stone Edge misses whenever you NEED it to hit. So really any of its strongest moves are also the shakiest in accuracy. HJK counts a blocked attack or a semi-invulnerable turn as a miss for the sake of crashing.

Checks and counters to Mienshao:

Anything physically defensive. Mienshao struggles to get past most of the common physical defensive pokemon in its tier, especially Suicune and Chesnaught, unless they've taken a little bit of prior damage and Mienshao has a Life Orb on hand. Scarfed sets just can't do much to them.

Ghost type pokemon. Mienshao's best move is guaranteed to miss against Ghost types. If you're using Mienshao and you're aware that the opponent has a Ghost type, it might be worth trying to predict with Knock Off for the switch, though players will sometimes predict that occurring too. Out of any Ghost types, only Spiritomb and Doublade (and I guess Aegislash too) don't fear Knock Off.

Poison type pokemon. Mienshao's most common sets have everything but Stone Edge and Knock Off resisted by mono-type Poisons, and defensive Nidoqueen and Crobat are especially frightening, because Crobat can easily outspeed and KO, and only fears stone edge; and defensive Nidoqueen isn't 3HKO'd by any combo of the sets Mienshao runs.

Fairy type pokemon. Mienshao's most common sets have everything but Stone Edge and Poison Jab resisted by monotype Fairies. Stone Edge is unreliable, and while Poison Jab can net a KO here and there, Klefki is immune, Mimikyuu is neutral, Granbull is only 2HKO'd because of Intimidate. Most Fairies are quite capable of OHKOing Mienshao.

Anything naturally or Scarf'd faster. Mienshao's papery bulk means it's probably KO'd by basically everything that looks at it harshly.

lastly, any kind of Protecting move.Protect forces HJK to miss. Spiky Shield, seen on Chesnaught and Togedemaru, forces HJK to miss and causes additional damage on top of the Crash. A Rocky Helmet Togedemaru can click Spiky Shield against a silly Mienshao trying to HJK "because steel is weak to fighting" and have it take 50+12.5+16.6% in recoil, practically a KO. That's a crazy 79% from just a single turn from the little spiky hedgehog. Baneful Bunker causes poison on top of the 50% crash, but it's unlikely the opponent will have to stall Mienshao out because of its frailty.



So all in all, Mienshao is one of those most interesting of pokemon; the ones with deep, gaping flaws and huge peaks of excitement. It's one of those pokemon you use that can quite easily clutch victory from the hands of defeat, or defeat from the hands of victory. Plus, its design is amazing! I try and use Mienshao a lot, but I don't expect Aegislash, Azumarill or Salamence level performance out of it.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 07:15:03 pm by Reudh »
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umiman

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6235 on: September 16, 2017, 11:40:13 am »

I really love Mienshao. It's my favorite fighting type.

Usually I play him maxed out in defenses so he can get swords dance off. I also typically skip high jump kick in favor of drain punch. People always expect the HJK and switch in ghost or protect or something. Or it just misses and loses the game.

Much prefer the drain punch.

I also really like the design. I like the weasel look. But I always think it's supposed to be psychic / fighting. When I first fought this thing it's what I thought it was. I lost that match. Couldn't beat the U-turn regenerator.

xaritscin

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6236 on: September 16, 2017, 12:13:35 pm »

agreed, drain punch is a much better option than HJK. specially with that amount of attack.

speaking of moves. do people use rock smash or strength in multiplayer? i see surf or waterfall because of the reliability and damage but what about the other HMs?
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umiman

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6237 on: September 16, 2017, 12:24:41 pm »

agreed, drain punch is a much better option than HJK. specially with that amount of attack.

speaking of moves. do people use rock smash or strength in multiplayer? i see surf or waterfall because of the reliability and damage but what about the other HMs?
Hmm...

To my knowledge, the only HMs that get used are waterfall, surf, defog (?), and fly. I have seen whirlpool very rarely... used in amusing, slow death builds.

Culise

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6238 on: September 16, 2017, 12:38:31 pm »

Strength used to be used before it was superseded by Return.  Fly seemed also to be somewhat rare in multiplayer in my own past experience, since using a 45-power move twice permits the user to deal more damage on average with less predictability, but I haven't used wifi much of late.
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umiman

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Re: A Thread about the Pokemans: The ULTRASun and ULTRAMoon Rises
« Reply #6239 on: September 16, 2017, 12:50:57 pm »

Strength used to be used before it was superseded by Return.  Fly seemed also to be somewhat rare in multiplayer in my own past experience, since using a 45-power move twice permits the user to deal more damage on average with less predictability, but I haven't used wifi much of late.
It's uncommon but it will show up from time to time in multi battles where it's a bit of a pseudo protect and you don't know which target it's going to hit. Either it or sky drop tends to feature, but sky drop does way less damage at the expense of removing an enemy pokemon for a turn.

It's gotten a bit of a comeback because it syncs with the z-power. Useful if you don't or can't run brave bird.
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