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Author Topic: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs  (Read 11176 times)

SAFry

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WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« on: June 30, 2012, 04:45:21 pm »

I wanted to start a new fort and get playing again but I couldn't run the risk that I might not generate the perfect world!

So, here is a new series of experiments looking into some of the civilisation and monster placement world tokens.

Firstly, I'm using 34.11 and here is my parameter set for my baseline:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So we got:
[MEGABEAST_CAP:18]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:37]
[TITAN_NUMBER:9]
[DEMON_NUMBER:28]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:14]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:14]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:14]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:14]
[SECRET_NUMBER:28]

and this is the results of living beings after 10 years:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There are 40 civs placed which translated into 8 of each race found in the default game Dwarf, Human, Elf, Goblins and Kobolds.

There are are also some oddities in the site populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Obviously some of these entries are sub-categories of beings already listed, like Marsh Titans are a type of Titan. But what is a Crones of the Night or a Horrors of Shadow? Are these one of the Night Creatures or Demons listed under 'alive'?

Next, it has been said that Kobolds can't spawn if there aren't any caves. I think I'll check that...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 05:18:03 pm by SAFry »
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SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2012, 05:04:03 pm »

Region 2, reduced [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25] and [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:50] both to 0 to test if it's true Kobolds need caves. Got the following results:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

OK, so that looks true, no caves = no Kobolds.

Wonder if any of the other critters are affected?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Can't see anybody obvious missing, Night Creature, Minotaur, Titan, Cyclops, Ettin, Giant, Demon, Colossus Bronze, Hydra, Dragon, Roc all there. No Troglodytes, guess that's to be expected. Will be back to this list later I expect to cross reference it as I get more familiar with them.

Here is the site populations for future reference:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2012, 05:16:45 pm »

Region 3, bit of a boring one, set all the tokens mentioned above to 0, put the caves back to the default settings.

Alive:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Note there are still forgotten beasts and the strange unnamed 7 beings near the top of the list.

Site populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

no hags anyway...

SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2012, 05:29:21 pm »

Region 4, now it gets more interesting;

[MEGABEAST_CAP:200]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:0]
[TITAN_NUMBER:0]
[DEMON_NUMBER:0]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:0]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:0]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:0]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:0]
[SECRET_NUMBER:0]

Alive:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well that seems pretty clear cut, Hydra, Colossus Bronze, Bird Roc, Dragon all around 50.

Site Populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2012, 05:38:13 pm »

Region 5;

all set to 0 except [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:200]

Alive:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So it looks like Giant, Ettin, Minotaur and Cyclops are the semimegabeasts. The wiki says that the CAP values don't affect the actual number of beasts, just the available caves. I guess that isn't true, will have to edit that now.

Also I notice there is a single Gorlak, a Butterfly Monarch and a Hungry Head. Coincidence? Probably...

Site Populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2012, 05:45:43 pm »

Region 6;

all set to 0 except [TITAN_NUMBER:200]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Guess what? 200 Titans, go figure... oh and a clown loach and a tigerman!

Site Populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2012, 06:01:59 pm »

Region 7;

all set to 0 except [DEMON_NUMBER:200]

Alive:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Odd, only 43 demons, 43? Hmm, doesn't seem to be related to cave numbers, 75 of them. Any ideas anybody? Maybe just hell is full, guess I could try pumping it up to 400 and see if it goes up. Still, I got other tokens to test, maybe later.

Site Populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know I'm seeing quite a few demon outcasts and prisoners, maybe 43? Perhaps the Legends Viewer only shows demons that are in sites? 

Oh also, one of the Kobold civs died, guess their starting 7 bumped into a demon in their cave?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 06:07:36 pm by SAFry »
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SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2012, 06:15:59 pm »

Region 8;

[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:200]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Night creatures at 199, so night troll = night creature, fine.

Site populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ahh, now that's quite illuminating, Crones, Hags, Moon Freak, Brutes, Creatures, Monsters, Ogres too many to mention. Wow, look at all the creatures I've never encountered before. Do these even show up in fortress mode?

SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2012, 06:25:01 pm »

Region 9;

all set to 0 except [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:200]

Alive:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

OK, nothing showing up there...

Site populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No clues there either, guess they don't show up in the viewer.

SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2012, 06:52:55 pm »

Region 10;

all set to 0 except [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:200]

Alive:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nothing...

Site populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nothing there either, odd because I'm sure I've see vampires in the Legends Viewer before although that might have been a mod. Maybe if I let it run longer? 10 years might not be doing the job.

Region 11;

same but 120 years of history. Takes.. so.. long.. to export... history.

Alive:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know I think I've been doing this wrong, Alive looks like a subcategory of Historical figures, oh well, it works quite well at 10 years. Starts going a bit different on a longer history.

Still no sign of any vampires, I guess they count as humans or dwarves etc. Found some humans who killed a bunch of other humans but looks like giant tigers are the most deadly beasts in this world!

Site populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Phew, 1AM, guess [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:X] and [SECRET_NUMBER:X] will have to wait until tomorrow although I got a feeling they won't be very interesting.

Darkening Kaos

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2012, 08:46:36 pm »

Maybe the [DEMON_NUMBER:200] refers to the number of demons {not in/escaped from} hell and are free to infest human and goblin civs as deities, etc.
Is there any way you can check for this?
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So! Failed to make peace, war looms, kill the infidels... what are our plans for the weekend?
The Giant Moles in the caverns of my current fort breed like crazy, even while regularly being decimated by other beasts entering them...

SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2012, 03:13:48 am »

Maybe the [DEMON_NUMBER:200] refers to the number of demons {not in/escaped from} hell and are free to infest human and goblin civs as deities, etc.
Is there any way you can check for this?

From the wiki (just looked it up):

Quote
Certain types of demons, those described as "being twisted into humanoid form" and marked with [UNIQUE_DEMON] instead of [DEMON] in world.dat, will occasionally escape the underworld and earn/create statuses in goblin or human civilizations; among humans, they pose as gods, while they take over goblin civilizations through force. These unique demons can be taken prisoner in world-gen by civs, if taken by a human civ you can ask them to join you and you will have a next to unkillable super soldier on your side. In fortress mode, demons controlling human civilizations may pay a visit to your fort as diplomats, and although they are not aggressive they may cause quite a bit of fun in the process if they have toxic secretions. Goblin law-giver demons may arrive on a goblin siege and are most of the time far more dangerous.

Pouring through the whole list of results again (glad I made reference of which region was which!) I can't see any demon types except the outcasts and captives in site populations.

Here is the whole lot if you want to take a look and see if there are any clues:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh noes, only 2 Giant Lynx left in the wild! Need to capture them for a breeding program, also Amethyst men, cool...

*edit* oh wait, in Underground Populations there are pages of demon types:

Quote
Goat Fiends: Unnumbered
Vomit Fiends: Unnumbered
Phantoms of Cinders: Unnumbered
Russet Demons: Unnumbered
Oriole Demons: Unnumbered
Sauropod Demons: Unnumbered
Beige Demons: Unnumbered
Waste Monsters: Unnumbered
Squirrel Devils: Unnumbered
Leech Monsters: Unnumbered
Flaming Specters: Unnumbered
Banshees of Steam: Unnumbered
Mantis Demons: Unnumbered
Orange Monsters: Unnumbered

unnumbered generally means something in excess of 40,000,000, compared it to the control (region 3) and there are no demon types in the underground population. So what does it all mean? The figure seems to affect both the demons in hell and the escaped ones. But why 'unnumbered', is it because there are so many of them or is the exact numbers HFS somehow? Does one demon generated in hell with this world token then generate a number of minions underground?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:26:30 am by SAFry »
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SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 03:36:56 am »

Region 12;

[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:200]

Alive historical figures:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Site Populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not surprisingly nothing showing up, expect they are all hidden in the Dwarf/Elf/Human populations. 

SAFry

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 03:54:26 am »

Region 13;

[SECRET_NUMBER:200]

Alive:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Site populations:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Again, nothing showing up. However I've heard that this token is related to necro towers and that they recruit every 10 years from battle deaths. If this is true then I will need a different type of experiment to show this. I'd need to run one control world with [SECRET_NUMBER:0] and another with [SECRET_NUMBER:200] then compare after a significantly longer history.

Further experiments may have to wait as I have to update the wiki, any comments or information would be appreciated at this point as I need ideas for further experiments.

Gurkie

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Re: WorldGen Science part 2 - beasts and civs
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 08:54:44 pm »

Thanks for the research and updated wiki Safry, much appreciated. Can I ask how you're looking up the numbers of living beasts? I've been trying to generate different megabeasts on the same embark site and I'm trying to figure out what parameters work best. It feels a little buggy when you generate more than 5000 beasts, sometimes they generate, sometimes not. I also haven't yet seen a megabeast lair on evil terrain either.
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