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Author Topic: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!  (Read 406571 times)

Bauglir

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3600 on: March 24, 2016, 01:07:44 pm »

Well, okay, if you want to go the gas bags route, I guess the first step would be some sort of chemical reaction between gasses that creates a film, where all the components are plausibly naturally-occurring. Then one element of their homeostasis, if I'm remembering to use the right term, would be keeping production of the not-omnipresent-in-the-atmosphere component going so that ruptures in the surface heal up. Reproduction by sound waves might occur when they create vibrations that are resonant with segments of the film, causing localized tears that allow the exchange of genetic material.

Given TempAcc's specific suggestion of the frequencies involved, this scenario would result in two worlds where Freddy Mercury causes instantaneous, long-range orgasms.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

redwallzyl

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3601 on: March 24, 2016, 08:21:56 pm »

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/03/24/471307905/scientists-build-live-no-frills-cell-that-could-have-a-big-future

cool cell stuff.

some people really don't understand biology. they took away all non absolutely essential function. if it got out it would die no matter what for lack of the specific controlled environment it was designed for which can not be found anywhere but a lab. and what would it even do? produce some useless to it compound with all its energy and die? cells don't just mysteriously evolve and exist and this is just about the unhardiest least likely thing to hurt anything but a glucose molecule. grey goo and franken cell it is not.
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scrdest

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3602 on: March 24, 2016, 08:57:10 pm »

You're talking as if the people raising panic over that kind of stuff cared one bit about reality of their claims. The majority is 'I HAVE SEEN A MOVIE LIKE THIS ONCE AND I AM SCARE' or 'LAB-MADE == DISTILLED EVIL'.
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We are doomed. It's just that whatever is going to kill us all just happens to be, from a scientific standpoint, pretty frickin' awesome.

Putnam

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3603 on: March 25, 2016, 12:24:59 am »

i went into the comments expecting stupidity and instead mostly just got political zingers

redwallzyl

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3604 on: March 25, 2016, 10:16:47 am »

i went into the comments expecting stupidity and instead mostly just got political zingers
Blame Obama. :P

any whey once politics takes over all hope is lost. anything else is burred under a thousand political arguments.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 10:21:20 am by redwallzyl »
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Descan

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3605 on: March 25, 2016, 03:19:01 pm »

So, Zerg then, Ispil?
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Sheb

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3606 on: March 25, 2016, 03:25:04 pm »

Imagine the day where 3D printers are replaced by a system that produces cells with specific DNA so that they then build the structure for you.

Why would you do such a thing?
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Solifuge

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3607 on: March 28, 2016, 06:38:15 am »

Not to mention that programmable-cell-based manufacturing is extremely flexible, nanoscale, easily expanded by growing a larger culture population, and can be completely self-powering and self-repairing. I've been arguing that Biotic Fabrication is the future of (at least a significant part of) material science and manufacturing since I learned about those goats that were engineered to make Spider Silk in their mammary glands back in middle school... once we have the genetic modification tools to do it precisely and cheaply, it's going to be as good as a new industrial revolution. Once we overcome the stigma of self-modification, it'll change a lot more too.

For starters, we already have Vats of existing microbes turning one molecule into another; photosynthetic organisms regenerating oxygen from CO2, polymer-eating bacteria recycling plastic trash into it's components, magnetotaxic bacteria turning Iron and Oxygen into magnetite nanomagnets, etc. All pretty cool, but the crazy-cool stuff happens when you can program custom biotics to synthesize whatever material you want, with nanoscale precision. A series of bacteria-ish organisms (or maybe complex macrobacteria) could synthesize nanoscale components, transistors, and even enzymatically assemble complete nanobots. Of course, they may well be as good as or better than the nanobots themselves for many purposes, if we can completely customize their behavior and genome.

It doesn't have to be limited to industry, or inorganic materials either. Medicine could see surgical programmed cells serving as organic bandages that can break down necrotic tissue, seal a wound, and stitch it closed, or a series of "organic grouts" that could replace dead or damaged cells in vital organs or tissues as though part of the rest of the organ, for rapid treatment of life-threatening injuries. And probably tons of applications which I can't even imagine.

Steven Hawking got pretty hyped about stuff tangential to this in the later part of this lecture: http://www.hawking.org.uk/life-in-the-universe.html. Highly recommended (Personally, I fed it into a text-to-speech synthesizer, but to each their own). Self-Designing Lifeforms can adapt at the speed of Information and Language (hours for complete and precise changes), rather than at the speed of Evolution (thousands of years for small random changes). Basically, once we gain fluency in modifying life on a genetic level, we can transcend so many boundaries by being able to directly change our own biological strengths and limitations in the same way we can change the tools we currently use. Us inventing Language and Tools are just half-steps between Evolutionary life and that sort of Self-Designing life.



So, apparently Klein Bottles have been a 3D representation of the 4D equivalent of a Mobius Loop all along, and I never noticed until someone said it. I understand that the size difference of the outer and inner bit is the rendering of 4D "Perspective", where the 4th-Dimensionally-Nearer outer bit is rendered larger in 3D space than the more 4D-Distant bit inside, to create the illusion of 4D Depth. I always thought they were cool, but knowing that makes them a lot cooler.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 06:42:29 am by Solifuge »
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Helgoland

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3608 on: March 28, 2016, 06:58:05 am »

So, apparently Klein Bottles have been a 3D representation of the 4D equivalent of a Mobius Loop all along
Nope, a Klein bottle is a 2-manifolds (a surface) that cannot be embedded into 3-dimensional space, but can be embedded into 4-dimensional space. The thing in the picture is something that is identical to a Klein bottle except for that bit of self-intersection. #nitpickmathematicians

(Wait, actually that wasn't nitpicky at all - but I'm guessing it appears that way.)
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miauw62

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3610 on: March 28, 2016, 07:39:17 am »

Descan is developing secret technology to touch butts with the power of his voice.
descan confirmed dragonborn
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Solifuge

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3611 on: March 28, 2016, 09:24:13 pm »

So, apparently Klein Bottles have been a 3D representation of the 4D equivalent of a Mobius Loop all along
Nope, a Klein bottle is a 2-manifolds (a surface) that cannot be embedded into 3-dimensional space, but can be embedded into 4-dimensional space. The thing in the picture is something that is identical to a Klein bottle except for that bit of self-intersection. #nitpickmathematicians

(Wait, actually that wasn't nitpicky at all - but I'm guessing it appears that way.)

Hmm, you sure we aren't saying the same thing? To use the terms as I understand them, A Mobius Loop is a non-orientable manifold of 1 dimension fewer than a Klein Bottle, yeah? Just as there's no distinction between the top and bottom of a 3D Mobius Loop, there's no distinction between the inside and outside of a true 4D Klein Bottle. In 3D, it's just warped a bit funny, due to not being able to extend the surface out/in in that direction.

It's just as possible that I don't get the distinction you're pointing out here, though. I'm in no way classically-trained, and my grasp of formal terminology is pretty sparse.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 09:26:47 pm by Solifuge »
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Starver

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3612 on: March 28, 2016, 10:00:00 pm »

A Mobius loop has a top of the strip (that is also the bottom of the strip) and a left edge of the strip (that is also the right edge of the strip).

A Klein Bottle has an inside (that is also the outside) and... no other defined 'edges'.  (Save for the 'artificial' one where it is made to drill through itself/flow around itself, in its 3D form, but that's the equivalent of what you'd have to do with a Mobius strip if you were forced to send it through itself, rather than 'around'.)

Which suggests to me that a Mobius shape is a slice of a Klein shape.  It's not the equivalent of a conic section (line in 2D) to the original cone (surface in 3D), but more like a subset of the cone surface as bounded by two surfaces.  This subset of the cone could be a (non-Mobial) loop, depending on how the two limit-surfaces are orientated to the cone, and (similarly) I think that two perpendicular limit-surfaces orientated in 4D through a full 4D Klein surface topology could bound a band that is topologically a Mobius loop, although many other orientations would give non-looping 'failures'.  (Assuming you've chosen a suitable slice across a suitable Klein-shape, its twist might still be in the fourth dimension, untill you rotate and morph the hypergeometry to make it 'flat' again to the 4th, leaving its twist only in the 'normal' three.)

...but that's just a mental impression I have, ICBW.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3613 on: March 28, 2016, 10:02:51 pm »

What.

I mean, Mobius loop, yes, Klein bottle, yes, but you lost me with the topology.  I think that's topology.  Is it topology?
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TheDarkStar

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Re: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!
« Reply #3614 on: March 28, 2016, 10:08:56 pm »

A quick reading of Wikipedia says that a Klein bottle can be made out of 2 Mobius strips glued at the edge.

FTFY :P
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