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[Erkki]

Hmmm...

Hurricane and I-16 arent super serious opponents either.

Trying to survive in late war against P-51, P-47 and Tempest in a non water methanol boosted 109 G is a whole different game. I rather fly a 190 thank you. 

[Natti]

Here's some great Falcon BMS footage everyone should watch.

Watched a little bit only. Not super into modern stuff, but it's really cool when people do post-mortems of their combats. How often does a fight devolve into using cannons? I was under the impression it was all about the Sidewinders

That really depends on who you ask. Some people claim cannons are only useful for ground pounding nowadays, while some say they still have a role in modern air-to-air combat. There isn't really a majority consensus on that, since there hasn't been an instance in the recent decades where two evenly matched air forces would've fought each other.
FWIW, though, if you look up kill statistics from the Vietnam air war, the cannons were already phasing out back then. The vast majority of air kills there were by Sidewinders and, to a lesser extent, Sparrows.

[Kot]

Though, it's easy to imagine that a battle between two evenly matched forces could devolve into cannon knife fight quickly. On the other hand, the ammunition count they have on those is usually pretty small.

[Ozyton]

I'm not an expert, but I imagine air to air battles today would pretty much involve BVR radar-guided missiles. Fire your active radar missile and immediately engage defensive to avoid any active radar missiles the enemy has probably fired at you. Semi-active radar missile is obviously more risky, as you have to maintain the lock until it hits, and Armok help you if they've fired a missile at you during that time.

(EDIT: and before I forget, at close range infared missiles are pretty damn scary. They don't show up on a RWR so you get no indication that you're about to explode in 2 seconds)

This is partly why I prefer less contemporary combat sims, they just seem more... I don't know the word, but I kinda equate it to having snap auto-aim enabled in a shooter game as opposed to having to manually aim.

[Kot]

I'm not an expert, but I imagine air to air battles today would pretty much involve BVR radar-guided missiles. Fire your active radar missile and immediately engage defensive to avoid any active radar missiles the enemy has probably fired at you. Semi-active radar missile is obviously more risky, as you have to maintain the lock until it hits, and Armok help you if they've fired a missile at you during that time.

I consider that the cannon jousting would happen after both sides fire off their missiles. There are systems (theoretically) that protect your plane from them, it's also considerably easier to dodge an rocket than a burst from autocannon, so after they don't have rockets anymore, they have to either return to base or shoot the other guy up. And sometimes returning to base isin't really a good option. EDIT: Also, also, by no means I have any real idea about this, I don't even really play modern flight sims, because World Wars FTW. The upper limit of manly dogfighting is proably Korean War or, by much lesser extent, Vietnam.

[Cthulhu]

Yeah, though I think the Americans got into some trouble with that in the Vietnam era where assumptions that everything would be BVR ended up being wrong and some of their jets weren't up to the task of VR combat.

I like jets, if only because DCS is the only good-looking non War Thunder combat flight sim that seems to be Oculus Riftable for when I inevitably spend money I don't have on one.  I've heard rifting a sim is insane, the sense of size and speed that you don't get on a flat screen.  Planes are huge

[Ozyton]

I'm not a history nerd (and I only know this as a sort of passing mention by someone) but in Vietnam you had the BVR missiles, but the ROE was not to engage without visually identifying the target... which requires you to be in visual range... sssooo.

I'm not an expert, but I imagine air to air battles today would pretty much involve BVR radar-guided missiles. Fire your active radar missile and immediately engage defensive to avoid any active radar missiles the enemy has probably fired at you. Semi-active radar missile is obviously more risky, as you have to maintain the lock until it hits, and Armok help you if they've fired a missile at you during that time.

There are systems (theoretically) that protect your plane from them, it's also considerably easier to dodge an rocket than a burst from autocannon, so after they don't have rockets anymore, they have to either return to base or shoot the other guy up.

I don't know what developments we have today, but not too long ago we had missiles that would not show up on your RWR (assuming your plane had one) until it was 'too late' (active missiles), and dodging them isn't really easy. Sure you have things like chaff, but the only real reliable way to defeat a missile like that is to put a mountain between you and the missile, or hope that you can increase its flight path for long enough (beam it) for it to run out of fuel and go ballistic.

Again, not an expert, so I could just be talking out my ass =p

I like jets, if only because DCS is the only good-looking non War Thunder combat flight sim that seems to be Oculus Riftable for when I inevitably spend money I don't have on one.

I bought rudder pedals and a TrackIR because I was planning on learning to fly the Huey for fun. Naturally, it's either do that, or play one of a thousand other games that are much more accessibly fun. Learning to fly is damn hard work, simulator or not. However, speaking of DCS, the F-14 was announced a while back which has me excited because that means multiple people in the same plane, which means co-op, and I like me some co-op =3

Heck, the Huey not having multiple people per chopper was disappointing for me. I want my buddies to be my door gunners and the swivel minigun things I forget the name of (but he's basically the copilot). However, what would really make me happy is an MI-24...

[Cthulhu]

I play Flaming Cliffs 3 since it's not quite as brutal on the simulation.  I'm still a pretty casual simmer, I'm still slowly transitioning into complex engine management and like I said before I mostly play timelines where I have the advantage to practice my gunnery and solution-acquisition more than nailbiting battles.  The real DCS sims like the A-10 are too much for me, also I dogfight with the A-10 so that's no fun.

[Erkki]

Last decade or 15 years has seen a generation of new medium and close range missiles arrive: most importantly AIM-9X, MICA and especially the IRIS-T. Additionally, good part of (mostly Western) air forces are equipped or are being equipped with HMDs.

These missiles are no longer limited by firing angle, they are "smart" with high resolution 2-band sensors, many can lock/re-target after launch. IRIS-T is able to thrust vector and pull 60 g, while the much longer ranged and more powerful MICA can pull 50 and is actually capable of 2-way comms and is able to receive target data from units other than the launching aircraft.

Interestingly the F-22 pilots still dont have head mounted display which is probably why they got their butts handed to them by Luftwaffe's JG.73 Typhoons a couple of years back in 1 vs 1 ACM excercises despite of their thrust vectoring.

I believe the consensus on cannon is that a single weapon is lightweight enough to justify its existence on board of a fighter even if they are unlikely to be ever used in a symmetric aerial war.

[Natti]

Yeah, though I think the Americans got into some trouble with that in the Vietnam era where assumptions that everything would be BVR ended up being wrong and some of their jets weren't up to the task of VR combat.

Actually, in Vietnam BVR wasn't a thing yet. AIM-7 Sparrows and AIM-9 Sidewinders were used by the Americans, and the max range of the AIM-7 Sparrow (IF the target was flying towards you) was about 35 kilometers.
What the Americans learned from air-to-air combat in the early years of the Vietnam air war was that Basic Combat Maneuvers still had to be taught, since the pilots often ended up in knife fights with North Vietnamese fighters. And even then the vast majority of kills were still achieved with missiles instead of guns.

I'm not an expert, but I imagine air to air battles today would pretty much involve BVR radar-guided missiles. Fire your active radar missile and immediately engage defensive to avoid any active radar missiles the enemy has probably fired at you. Semi-active radar missile is obviously more risky, as you have to maintain the lock until it hits, and Armok help you if they've fired a missile at you during that time.

This is pretty much how it works in modern combat flight sims. You fire off your AMRAAM and start cranking away as soon as it's pitbull.
Of course, in DCS multiplayer you can always try the ages old method of hiding in the valleys with your radar off, then popping up to mess up everyone's day with heaters.

About the RWR: It's true that the radar warning receiver, which is pretty much standard equipment on any modern military plane, does not warn you of IR missile launches or locks. Some planes have additional missile launch warning systems, though, which start freaking the fuck out when they notice an IR missile coming at your plane. The A-10c has one of these.

[Anvilfolk]

Turns out I have Flaming Cliffs 3 and P-51 besides the A-10C. Might pick up a couple more on their 70% off sales. I'm definitely going to wait getting back into it before DCS World 1.5 comes out, which is scheduled for September! Can't wait. Better performance and graphics will be welcome! By then I'll probably have my fighterstick too, so... ALL THE BUTTONS.

I think my T16000 is getting old though. Not as precise as it used to be. Is there a joystick that is known to be very precise and responsive? The Fighterstick is OK, but also not particularly precise either.

[Natti]

Apparently the current state-of-the-art sticks are the Saitek X-55 Rhino and the Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog.
I have a cheap Cyborg Fly 5 I picked up from some sale. Had to tie up its spring for it to be actually usable in flight sims.

You should definitely get the MiG-21bis. It's a hilarious plane to fly.

[Anvilfolk]

I would really like something that isn't multiple hundred dollars

Anyway, I installed drivers for the T-16000m and a software called TARGET, and it does appear like the joystick is running smoother. Could be mindgames, but either way I'm happy(ier).

I wonder about the Huey... I guess I'll pick up whatever makes more sense depending on what AG-51 is flying, since I'm more likely to fly with them anyway!

[Ozyton]

I think my T16000 is getting old though. Not as precise as it used to be. Is there a joystick that is known to be very precise and responsive? The Fighterstick is OK, but also not particularly precise either.

I was thinking of getting a Fighterstick or Combatstick or whatever at some point. I have rudder pedals, so I don't need the twist axis on a stick. Thing is, I don't have a dedicated throttle, and I've already invested a fair sum of money on stuff that I don't get to use often.

I have a cheap Cyborg Fly 5 I picked up from some sale. Had to tie up its spring for it to be actually usable in flight sims.

I had the same stick (though it was branded something else I think) and one of the buttons was actually falling off and you had to push it at a weird angle to get it to register anything. Plus it was located pretty far forward, so if you push the stick forward then the entire thing will lift up off the surface it's on (and to get a chopper to move forward guess what you have to do).

I wonder about the Huey... I guess I'll pick up whatever makes more sense depending on what AG-51 is flying, since I'm more likely to fly with them anyway!

The Huey is hard as balls. I didn't know this at the time I bought it, but it's all manual control... meaning there's no computer auto-correcting to maintain steady flight like many modern choppers. MI-8 might actually be easier in that regard, but I don't have that module. I just know people who flew KA-50 and MI-8 etc. picked up Huey and immediately thought that it was broken, bugged, or glitched because of how it flew compared to the computer assisted ones.
Plus (right now) you don't get a co-pilot or door gunner as players, which is a damn shame. Try flying a helicopter while looking out the side door and shooting a minigun. Good luck. Hopefully in the new version of DCS they'll add some of that stuff in.

Of course, I don't think Huey is very popular when it comes to multiplayer, if that's what you're looking for.

[Anvilfolk]

I never did get used to my rudder pedals. Got them at a time where I was moving around a lot and stopped flying. They're sitting somewhere back home, but I hope to get them back within the next month or so. Wohoo!

As far as throttles, I have a CH Throttle Quadrant I'm not entirely happy with. It's not precise at all, and the input keeps changing even without touching the handles, which is a minor annoyance. Just lesser quality sensors, I guess. Some people use mousewheel... I'm sure those sticks have got to have throttle controls, even though they might be annoying to use.

I'd still recommend the T-16000m over the Fighterstick/Combatstick. It has (way?) better sensors, and is cheaper. The throttle is awkwardly positioned smack in the middle of the stick though. The T-16000m also has some springs, which is great feedback as to how much input you're giving it. The spring-back on the Fighterstick is almost nil. I had a REALLY hard time adjusting.



Scared of that Huey information though. Sounds super challenging! I think some people in my squad actually flew them at some point, so they ought to be able to give me a few tips. They're the people I play online with, so if they fly, I can fly. Not too worried about public servers or whatever.

I hope DCS World 1.5/2 introduces flyables with multiple player positions for sure!