Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Helping an aspiring writer.  (Read 2756 times)

Truean

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ok.... [sigh] It froze over....
    • View Profile
Helping an aspiring writer.
« on: July 10, 2012, 02:26:55 pm »

So I appear to have met a decent writer friend (rarity of rarities).
I'm amazed there are people that read anything today. She's halfway decent at writing, but doesn't know shit about getting published or self published. I'm leaning towards self published?[sigh]

Are there places that do this sorta thing. I've heard of kickstarter, but not much else, quite honestly.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 10:20:51 pm by Truean »
Logged
The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

rutsber

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 02:33:01 pm »

Logged
Gave me an idea. I'm gonna add the milkable tag to the male minotaur. MMMMmmm minotaur cheese.
A loud angry voice and instinct. "FUCK OFF URIST THIS TABLE IS MINE!"

Truean

  • Bay Watcher
  • Ok.... [sigh] It froze over....
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 04:58:15 pm »

Something like Amazon Self-publishing?

Sounds about right to me, thanks. :)
Logged
The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

LordBucket

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 05:08:40 pm »

I know nothing about being an agent for writers.

It happens that I do.

Quote
She's halfway decent at writing such things, but doesn't know
shit about getting published or self published.

Does she have a manuscript ready for publication, or is this something she's just now considering doing? In my experience, the typical novel takes between one and two years to write.

Quote
I've heard of kickstarter

Kickstarter provides an avenue for people to offer donations, but one would still need to direct people to the site and convince them to actually donate.

Quote
I'm also thinking she isn't going to pay me shit either

No, she won't. Nor should you expect her to because there is unlikely to be enough money going around for her to do so. New authors don't make as much money as even college bands playing at local bars and it's much more expensive to do. A band already has their instruments. If you book them a gig, what does a night club pay? $200? Divide that by let's say 4 band members, and everyone can walk away with $50, minus whatever percentage you charge for the booking. There are no up front costs to the band, and it is immediately profitable. Even if the club only pays $100 and you take 50%, even if they print and pass out their own flyers, they can still be making money on day 1.

In comparison, let's use a recent example from my own experience with a local print shop. We recently did a 250 run of a 533 page softcover novel for $4000. This is a book with a list price of $18.50. Do the math. She'll need to sell 216 out of those 250 books just to break even on printing costs. Now...costs do decrease rapidly with numbers. Getting a second run of 250 printed would cost closer to $2000 because much of the expense is setup, cover and one-time fees. A print shop will generally keep data on hand so that an author can simply call up years later and ask for additional runs and all they need to do is load the file and click print.

So now that you've paid $4000 up front, let's look at how you then start making money from sales:

Quote
publishing companies

Unless you're already famous, getting a publishing company to front printing costs is not easy. Getting into the industry is not simply a matter of writing a book then handing it to a publishing company and expecting money. The majority of your sales will come from personal footwork: attending faires, book signings at libraries, etc. It is not difficult to book events. Some, like county faires, will charge you for tablespace. Others might not. For example, the standard approach for a library would be to donate a couple copies for their shelves then offer to do a book signing. I've never had a library say no to that. You give them 2-3 copies, then set up a table near the entrance and sign copies that people buy. The problem here is that, using the previous example, if you give a library 2 copies, that cost $32 and you only make $2.50 profit per sale. Just to break even on a library book signing you probably need to sell 13 copies. That can happen...but it's by no means a sure thing. It's simply something you do to get your name out there. Really what you're hoping for with a library signing is for those couple people who actually bought the book to tell their friends and hope that they give out the number from the business card you slid into the book. Very often, however, rather than doing this they will instead simply loan the book to their friend. Or give it to them.

Events like county and state faires can be far more profitable. Sacramento state faire charges $400 for a table, but in some cases they'll waive that and simply charge 15% of sales. The author that I work with made $800 over a weekend last time she went. But it's an annual event. It's not something you can book every weekend. High school boutiques are more frequent and typically charge much less, $40 to $80 for a weekend. Those can be profitable. But again, you have to remember printing costs. Even if you make profit after tablespace, you still need to be selling hundreds of books over the long term to have any chance of recouping those costs. And at all of these events an author is spending 8-12 hours a day sitting at a table, talking to people, passing out business cards and being grateful for the rare, occasional chance to actually sell and sign a book.

Short answer: even if she spends the next year writing a book, several thousand dollars printing it, hundreds of hours at book signings and events...it's very likely to be years before she breaks even.

Something like Amazon Self-publishing?

For new authors, selling hard copies via amazon is generally a losing, or at absolute best break-even proposition. Amazon takes 55% of sale price, and it costs a couple dollars to ship them a book. Unless you are already a well known author, they don't generally like to keep more than 1 or 2 copies. Here's the process:

You print a book. Using the above 250-run example, that book cost you $16.50 to print. You then send amazon that book. In this case, shipping costs were $3 per copy. Amazon holds that book until they sell it to a customer. In this case, they sell it for $18.50. They keep 55% of that and give you the remaining $8.35, then ask you to mail them a new copy. Your net loss is $11.15.

In order to make any money selling through amazon, you need to have massive volume in order to reduce printing costs. The author in this example I'm giving is personally eating those losses in order to establish herself and get her name out there. Now, granted...this is a bit of an extreme example because it was an especially small run (only 250 copies for $4000) and the book itself was unusually large at 533 pages. It's not always this bad. But this is a real life example and it happens to be the most recent example I've worked with. A more realistic expectation might be to hope to break even. Either way, expecting to make a profit right away is probably not realistic. Amazon is bad for authors. It's not an avenue for selling books or making money. It's simply an expected expense because people ask if you're on amazon, and it's generally worth the losses in order to be able to say that you are.

A more profitable option is to self-publish e-books via amazon kindle, yes. This is much less expensive as it does not require you to print physical books. Merely to convert them to kindle format and upload them. Amazon imposes an upper limit sales price of $9.99 and keeps either 30% or 65% depending on your royalty type. As of the last time I submitted a book there isn't any reason to give them the 65%. Pay the 30%. Note also that amazon reserves the right to arbitrarily sell your books for less than you say. I've never seen them actually do it, but it's possible that they might.

In order to get a book on kindle you will need to convert it to the kindle format. If you are technically inclined, the format specification and tools are freely available from amazon. If you are not technically inclined, there are plenty of services who will do it for you. If you're looking for a referral, I charge $400. If you shop around you might be able to find cheaper. Note that "convesion tools" does not mean "plug it and and say go." It's more complicated than that.



So there's  a quick overview. Any more specific questions?

lordcooper

  • Bay Watcher
  • I'm a number!
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 05:19:59 pm »

I've got nothing to add but damn, that was pretty fascinating LordBucket.
Logged
Santorum leaves a bad taste in my mouth

Strife26

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 06:14:50 pm »

Any chance that you're also in the know about non-novel type publishing? Novellas or short stories?
Logged
Even the avatars expire eventually.

eerr

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 06:17:24 pm »

I don't know a damn thing about book distribution, however,

distribution multiple people can see.

Can be free or sold.


... fixed.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 10:50:15 am by eerr »
Logged

Sir Finkus

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 06:43:48 pm »

Don't expect here to make much money in any case.  Just like musicians, very few writers make much at all.  Probably even some you've heard of.

LordBucket

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2012, 08:54:51 pm »

Any chance that you're also in the know about non-novel
type publishing? Novellas or short stories?

If your goal is to make money, writing fiction is not the way to do it. If you're serious, get involved in writing marketing copy. Copywriting positions are not in short supply, and generally pay well. If you want to do something more casual and on your own time, then submit articles to magazines. A major article in Boy's Life can get $400 to $1500. A 600 word kissing guide for Seventeen is probably worth a couple hundred.

If you want it easy, focus on stuff for kids. Major magazines like Cosmoplitian, Playboy, Rolling Stone, etc. are generally more difficult to get involved with and don't usually accept unsolicited submissions in the first place. But at the same time, don't be scared by the solicitation requirement. If you have a good idea, submit it to the editor to see if they're interested. They might be. And in all cases once you do get published it suddenly becomes much easier to get published again. Magazines tend to heavily favor publishing work by previous contributors. Pick something you're genuinely interested in, cars, music, whatever, then start submitting articles to relevant magazines until they start publishing you. Once you're in, it's easy to stay in, and there can sometimes be side-benefits from being a regular writer. For example, having a press pass is awesome.

If you really want to write short stories, there do exist magazines like Analog that cater to that. A quick check of their submissions guide says they pay 6-8 cents per word. However, the vast majority of paid writing is not fiction. If you're only writing fiction you're seriously limiting your marketability. There's far more demand for marketing copy, automotive reviews, political commentary, teeny bopper glamour guides, etc.

eerr

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2012, 11:46:23 pm »

It's not exactly revolutionary, but cracked.com says universities offer courses on how to publish books?

Could easily be outdated though-

Logged

Pnx

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Helping an aspiring writer.
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2012, 11:06:45 pm »

Yeah unfortunately for most people writing books does not pay well at all. Some people make millions off of the books they write, but unfortunately that's like winning the lottery, there's a limited amount of space at the top of the pyramid and for every person who gets a million dollars, a there's a very large number of people who didn't make the draw.

My advice is to not write books for the money, have a day job to keep you afloat and write books for the love of it. The fact that it's never going to make me rich has never stopped me wanting to write books.
Logged