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Morrowind (with Tribunal and Bloodmoon)

124 (58.8%)

Oblivion (with Shivering Isles)

16 (7.6%)

Skyrim

51 (24.2%)

Daggerfall

16 (7.6%)

Arena

4 (1.9%)

Total Members Voted: 209

[Sensei]

I voted Morrowind, because I loved the plot freedom, physical freedom (like flying), and number of skills (though this is subject to argument), and the way level scaling was handled but there's pretty good arguments to be made for Skyrim as well. For starters, the way combat 'felt' was more entertaining in Skyrim. I can even sort of see why they removed some of skills in Oblivion: It sucked to start using a long sword and basically be locked out of short swords if you wanted to focus on becoming good with long swords at all.I think they should have gone with something where instead of merging skills entirely, they should have put the skills into 'schools' of some kind so that learning, for example, Long Blades also levels your Short Blades but at half rate or something, so you have an incentive to stick to one thing but you don't have to grind forever and ruin how your character levels to do two things.

I've actually noticed different; PC users as a whole tend to dislike Skyrim.

Well, Skyrim certainly caters more to the Xbox audience. Beats oblivion though! And the number of mods shows there's certainly PC Skyrim players in large amounts.

[Domenique]

I think the bit on metaphysics proves why Morrowind is and will be the best in the series.

[Euld]

I voted Skyrim, although I feel like Oblivion was better in some ways.  I honestly tried to get into Morrowind a while back and the text-based dialogue and old old graphics killed it for me.  I honestly don't mind reading text, but I felt like I was getting slammed with paragraph after paragraph of text when I just wanted to get my bearings and go.  I try to keep an open mind when it comes to graphics, but I guess I've grown nitpicky about those too.

[Sensei]

I don't think there's a full voice mod, but I do know there's an updated graphics mod for Morrowind.

[Domenique]

I don't think there's a full voice mod, but I do know there's an updated graphics mod for Morrowind.

Animations still suck major ass though.

[Sensei]

I thought the Better Bodies mod corrected the animations; at least for humanoids. I thiiiinnnnnk.

I'm sure that us suggesting you a mod shopping list before you even play is probably throwing some red flags, but make sure you get the community patch too if you really want to play. It fixes a lot of bugs.

[Duke 2.0]

I think the bit on metaphysics proves why Morrowind is and will be the best in the series.

I dunno, this is sorta like thinking the presence of the different races makes Morrowind the best. It's the same through the whole series. It's not a Morrowind exclusive thing.

[Sordid]

I think the bit on metaphysics proves why Morrowind is and will be the best in the series.

I dunno, this is sorta like thinking the presence of the different races makes Morrowind the best. It's the same through the whole series. It's not a Morrowind exclusive thing.

Eh, not really. I don't think the Sermons of Vivec showed up in Oblivion or Skyrim. And even if they did, they'd be completely out of place in these games. The great thing about Morrowind's lore and history is that it's directly connected to the game's plot. The Lessons of Vivec give you an insight into the mind of a character that plays a very prominent role in the story of the game. Oblivion and Skyrim have this connection between plot and lore too (namely the Amulet of Kings and the Dragonfires in Oblivion, and the Elder Scroll and Thu'um in Skyrim), but it's much more shallow and less interesting. Morrowind's plot is about blasphemy, ambition, betrayal, murder, and deceit. Oblivion's and Skyrim's plots are about a magic doodad that'll stop a big baddie coming to destroy the world for no reason.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That's not exactly right. The Elder Scrolls, as the name suggest, are very important to the background of the Elder Scroll games as a whole. To Skyrim's credit, it really added to the backstory of the Elder Scrolls by explaining how they function for different people. There's also the revelation that the Dwemer made what is essentially a barcode reader for Elder Scrolls, which is exactly the kind of thing that could get your entire species unpersoned. After playing Skyrim I am almost certain that it is the reason they vanished.

Furthermore, Elder Scrolls aren't even really scrolls at all. That's just how they appear to mortals who can't comprehend their true nature. They're older than the gods themselves. Continuing on the metaphysics standpoint, Elder Scrolls are essentially a way of editing the source code of the universe. It was used to banish Alduin because Elder Scrolls are one of the only things that can change fate in TES, and Alduin is fated to devour the world, or at least he was. Whether the Elder Scroll changed that fate or just delayed it isn't answered, but the Dragonborn does kill Alduin. On the other hand, dragons don't die for good unless you devour their souls, and the Dragonborn doesn't devour Alduin's soul.

[Duke 2.0]

 And while the sermons don't show up in Skyrim or Oblivion, it's still in the same world. If Vivec was still alive there would be other crazy things going on. Although reading about his death is just as good.

[Gunner-Chan]

And lets not forget that deep down at it's core, Morrowind is about a magical artifact too. (Heart of lorkhan)

I like morrowind as much as anyone from that time that got to play it, but compared piece for piece most of the games compare favorably to eachother. Fake or stilted depth and lack of depth aren't very different from one another.

[Sordid]

That's not exactly right. The Elder Scrolls, as the name suggest, are very important to the background of the Elder Scroll games as a whole.

No they aren't. The first game they played any role in at all was Oblivion, and it was still just a side quest. The five preceding games barely mentioned them.

To Skyrim's credit, it really added to the backstory of the Elder Scrolls by explaining how they function for different people.

Whether that was good or bad is a matter of opinion. Previously they were a mystery and therefore interesting, now they're much more mundane. Would the plot of Morrowind have been better if it gave you a clear answer to the question of what happened to the Dwemer or who betrayed whom at Red Mountain? Of course not! Leaving some questions unanswered is extremely important, and I for one was much happier when the Elder Scrolls were this nebulous thing in the background.

And lets not forget that deep down at it's core, Morrowind is about a magical artifact too. (Heart of lorkhan)

No, it isn't. The Heart is a MacGuffin, yes, but that's not what the plot is about. Look at what the objectives of the individual parts of the main quest are. The entire first half of the main quest in MW is nothing more than gathering lore. You have to do favors for those informants that Caius Cosades sends you to in order for them to give you information about the ashlanders, then you do a bunch of quests for the ashlanders in order for them to tell you what this whole Nerevarine thing is about, then you have to get that priestess out of jail so that you get some more lore at their secret monastery... Most of the main quest is just figuring out what the hell is going on and why, i.e. what the hell happened at Red Mountain when the Dwemer were defeated and disappeared and Nerevar was killed. The point of most of the MQ is to learn the lore, and it's only at the very end, when talking to Vivec and reading the notes he has had prepared for you, that you find our what you're going to have to do.

Compare that to the MQ of Oblivion and Skyrim. You're told by the first significant NPC what's going on and what you're going to have to do. That's Jauffre in Oblivion. He tells you right in his first conversation that there's a daedric threat, that the Dragonfires have to be re-lit in order to avert it, that it can only be done by a Septim using the Amulet of Kings in a specific temple in the Imperial City, and that there is one last Septim who can do it. There's nothing left to discover, you know right from the outset that you're going to have to get the guy and the amulet to the temple. The quests in between are just contrivances to artificially prolong the MQ. They're nothing more than fetch quests to get minor MacGuffins in order to enable you to get the big MacGuffin. The theft of the Amulet if Kings isn't a shocking turn of events, it's a necessity. Otherwise the plot would be a grand total of two or three quests long. Get amulet, get guy, get guy with amulet to temple. "We need this here magic doodad and that guy to win the game. You go get the guy, I'll keep the doodad here where it'll be safe," says the first major quest giver at the conclusion of the first quest of the game. Yeah, right. I totally didn't see that twist coming. 

Likewise in Skyrim you're informed by Balgruuf that dragons herald the end of the world, that only a Dragonborn can defeat them, that you're the Dragonborn, and that a Dragonborn's power is the Voice. So again you know right from the beginning that you're going to have to defeat the dragons using Thu'um. It's all laid out in front of you from the start, you don't have to do any thinking. You don't even have to listen to the dialog, you can click through it and just follow the quest arrow. In Morrowind you at least had to listen to what people told you in order to know what you were supposed to do next.

And don't even get me started on Daggerfall. Let me show you in graphical form:

Spoiler: The structure of Morrowind's MQ (click to show/hide)

As good as the MQ is in terms of lore, it's mostly linear and straightforward. Oblivion and Skyrim are even more so. Now compare that to...

Spoiler: ...the structure of Daggerfall's MQ (click to show/hide)

Look at that! No, seriously, look closely. Not only is the quest progression a lot more complex, not only are there a whole bunch of standalone quests and optional quest branches, there are actually two separate main quests running in parallel.

Long story short, TES games have been getting better in terms of graphics and gameplay mechanics over the past decade and a half, but also gradually worse at writing and depth.

Fake or stilted depth and lack of depth aren't very different from one another.

Which is why Skyrim is only slightly better than Oblivion in this respect. Oblivion has no depth at all, Skyrim has fake depth, and Morrowind has real depth.

[Ivefan]

Lots of text

Agreed, very good points. And unfortunately, this degradation applies to all rpgs.

[Aqizzar]

Spoiler: Quotes of Morrowind stuff I didn't notice. (click to show/hide)

So Vivec, who had a grain of Ayem's mercy, set about to teach Molag Bal in the ways of belly-magic. They took their spears out and compared them. Vivec bit new words onto the King of Rape's so that it might give more than ruin to the uninitiated. This has since become a forbidden ritual, though people still practice it in secret.

Here is why: The Velothi and demons and monsters that were watching all took out their own spears. There was much biting and the earth became wet. And this was the last laugh of Molag Bal:

'Watch as the earth shall crack, heavy with so much power, that should have been forever unalike!'

Then a bunch of demons started rampaging and Vivec killed them with his dick. It's basically self-insert fanfiction.

"And then I totally banged everyone and killed the demons and saved the day and got blowjobs from everyone!"

O_o O_o O_o

I loved the 36 Lessons books because they were so balls to the wall crazy, but I never read all of them, or too closely.  I can't believe I missed that part, but it doesn't surprise me.  Speaking in character, I did love the interplay between the prophecies and the personalities of Vivec, Dagoth Ur, and the Temple.  There's this bunch of Prophecies that clearly only Azura has any real interest in seeing come to pass, Nerevar was a sacrifice or at least a scapegoat, Dagoth was a really nice guy who just went powermad, Vivec is sick to death of being a god and entertains himself by driving his religious order nuts, and Caius Cossades is an old cokehead trying to get you to fulfill foreign prophecies just make sure the Empire still knows what the hell is going on.

And that was just the main quest.  I also took a particular interest in completing the whole thing as an Argonian.  I feel like the "conservative" Dunmer don't comment on that nearly enough.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

No they aren't. The first game they played any role in at all was Oblivion, and it was still just a side quest. The five preceding games barely mentioned them.

"Just a side quest" is how you describe the ultimate quest of the Thieves Guild and breaking into White Gold Tower?

Anyway, the preceding games had them in the background, but Skyrim having some contact with one isn't a bad thing. It's completely appropriate for the story in Skyrim's case, because as I said before, Skyrim's story brings Fate into the picture. In TES the only ways to alter Fate are through the direct intervention of Daedra or Aedra or through the use of an Elder Scroll. You aren't even the one altering Fate, that was done way back when Alduin first tried to eat the world. The Dragonborn's usage of the Elder Scroll is just to take a look at what was done with it before to learn Dragonrend, which for an artifact of the Elder Scroll's power is fairly mundane.

Whether that was good or bad is a matter of opinion. Previously they were a mystery and therefore interesting, now they're much more mundane. Would the plot of Morrowind have been better if it gave you a clear answer to the question of what happened to the Dwemer or who betrayed whom at Red Mountain? Of course not! Leaving some questions unanswered is extremely important, and I for one was much happier when the Elder Scrolls were this nebulous thing in the background.

Something being mysterious doesn't make it interesting. Mysterious things can be interesting, but some mysterious things are just plain unknown, like the Elder Scrolls were for most of the series. Futhermore, we still know almost nothing about them. All knowledge about the Elder Scrolls is as follows:

-They are the oldest things in the universe.
-They are capable of changing Fate.
-With them you can see the real past and all potential futures.
-You cannot grasp the true form of the Elder Scrolls.
-People who don't know about the Elder Scrolls do not react with Elder Scrolls and just see what looks like a weird star chart in some unknown language.
-People who know about the Elder Scrolls but are untrained to read them will see a future and be stricken blind by it.
-The Ancestor Moths can train people to survive staggered exposure to the Elder Scrolls, vision partially intact.
-The training of the Ancestor Moths only does so much, and eventually the reader will go blind.
-The Dwemer developed a machine that could read Elder Scrolls before they vanished, and there was one in the machine when they vanished.
-Elder Scrolls are uncountable and any gathering of them will fluctuate in number for no discernible reason.

And most of that requires some intentional lore searching to figure out.