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Please vote wich game is better (if you played all of them, or know them somewhat well enough) and comment on why did you chose that, thank you.

Morrowind (with Tribunal and Bloodmoon)
- 124 (58.8%)
Oblivion (with Shivering Isles)
- 16 (7.6%)
Skyrim
- 51 (24.2%)
Daggerfall
- 16 (7.6%)
Arena
- 4 (1.9%)

Total Members Voted: 209


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Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls  (Read 55711 times)

Aqizzar

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #195 on: July 14, 2012, 07:28:46 pm »

I was always under the impression that "The Elder Scrolls" were just a framing device for the setting back when The Arena was a guy's D&D campaign setting and they made Arena and Daggerfall and Battlespire and Redguard.  I don't think there's a single mention of "The Elder Scrolls" as a thing in Morrowind.  By the sound of it, somebody decided to pull them up as a plot object and went way overboard with it.
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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #196 on: July 14, 2012, 08:29:25 pm »

No they aren't. The first game they played any role in at all was Oblivion, and it was still just a side quest. The five preceding games barely mentioned them.

"Just a side quest" is how you describe the ultimate quest of the Thieves Guild and breaking into White Gold Tower?

Well yes. How else would you describe it? There's the main quest, and then there's every other quest. Every quest that isn't part of the main quest is a side quest. And quite frankly the TG quest line was terrible. "I have this cursed magic doodad that has screwed up my life! How do I fix it? Oh I know, with another magic doodad!" *yawn* It's the same thing as with MW and Oblivion. The Dark Brotherhood quest line is about loyalty, madness, vengeance, and betrayal. The TG quest line is about magic doodads.

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Anyway, the preceding games had them in the background, but Skyrim having some contact with one isn't a bad thing. It's completely appropriate for the story in Skyrim's case, because as I said before, Skyrim's story brings Fate into the picture. In TES the only ways to alter Fate are through the direct intervention of Daedra or Aedra or through the use of an Elder Scroll. You aren't even the one altering Fate, that was done way back when Alduin first tried to eat the world. The Dragonborn's usage of the Elder Scroll is just to take a look at what was done with it before to learn Dragonrend, which for an artifact of the Elder Scroll's power is fairly mundane.

Like I said, it's a matter of opinion. My opinion is that using it in Skyrim was a bad thing. As you yourself said, you use it in a very mundane way. IMO that really cheapens it.

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Something being mysterious doesn't make it interesting. Mysterious things can be interesting, but some mysterious things are just plain unknown, like the Elder Scrolls were for most of the series.

Um, mysterious and unknown mean pretty much the same thing. But you're half-right, simply being unknown isn't enough to make something interesting. It also has to be important in some way, which the Elder Scrolls clearly are, what with being in the title of each of the games.

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Futhermore, we still know almost nothing about them. All knowledge about the Elder Scrolls is as follows:

-They are the oldest things in the universe.
-They are capable of changing Fate.
-With them you can see the real past and all potential futures.
-You cannot grasp the true form of the Elder Scrolls.
-People who don't know about the Elder Scrolls do not react with Elder Scrolls and just see what looks like a weird star chart in some unknown language.
-People who know about the Elder Scrolls but are untrained to read them will see a future and be stricken blind by it.
-The Ancestor Moths can train people to survive staggered exposure to the Elder Scrolls, vision partially intact.
-The training of the Ancestor Moths only does so much, and eventually the reader will go blind.
-The Dwemer developed a machine that could read Elder Scrolls before they vanished, and there was one in the machine when they vanished.
-Elder Scrolls are uncountable and any gathering of them will fluctuate in number for no discernible reason.

And most of that requires some intentional lore searching to figure out.

And that's "very little" knowledge, is it? For a magical artifact, that's actually quite a lot. We're of course never going to know how they work simply because the answer, however wordy, is always going to be "by magic". But I find that what you've listed is more than enough information already. What also bothers me a great deal is that they're supposedly these extremely powerful items that can do anything from breaking daedric curses to sending dragons forward in time, yet you can't actually do anything with it when you have one. "Oh but your character doesn't know how to use it," says the game. Well then why can't I bloody well go and find someone to teach me? I had the exact same issue with the Heart in Morrowind. I have Kagrenac's Tools, I'm in the Heart chamber, why is my only option to destroy the Heart? Why can't I make myself a god like the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur did? Vivec didn't tell me how to do that, he only told me how to use the tools to destroy the Heart, but why can't I ask that dwemer? He was a big shot working alongside Kagrenac and there are dwemer books lying around with illustrations of the tools being used to manipulate the Heart. Surely he could help me figure it out. But no, the option to ask him about it isn't even there. IMO the player shouldn't be able to get their hands on these immensely powerful artifacts if they then won't be allowed to use them meaningfully.
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Sensei

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #197 on: July 14, 2012, 08:40:55 pm »

Alas, the scope of storytelling in a computer game only goes so far.
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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #198 on: July 14, 2012, 08:56:52 pm »

early 2013

*ring ring*

bethesda guy #1: Tom?

writer: hey man came to start the job.

bethesda guy #1: Tom we hired you eighteen years ago, where have you been? You're damned late!

writer: A GOOD WRITER IS NEVER LATE, HE ARRIVES PRECISELY WHEN HE MEANS TO!
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This conversation is getting disturbing fast, disturbingly erotic.

Dutchling

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #199 on: July 15, 2012, 05:16:53 am »

Ok, you guys did it. Now I need to play Morrowind again.

And this time I am actually going to complete the damn game.
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Haspen

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #200 on: July 15, 2012, 05:39:26 am »

You never completed the game?

The speedrun record is 7:30 minutes, so no excuses for you, Dutchling :P
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Dutchling

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #201 on: July 15, 2012, 05:47:16 am »

I got as far as giving some guy something from a Dwemer ruin. Is that very far into the story :P?
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Haspen

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #202 on: July 15, 2012, 05:53:34 am »

In terms of normal playthrough, no, not really.
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Domenique

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #203 on: July 15, 2012, 05:58:48 am »

I got as far as giving some guy something from a Dwemer ruin. Is that very far into the story :P?
Isn't that the first mission?
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anzki4

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #204 on: July 15, 2012, 06:00:48 am »

I got as far as giving some guy something from a Dwemer ruin. Is that very far into the story :P?
That is the first quest on Main Quest line if I recall correctly.

EDIT: Ninja'd.
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Dutchling

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #205 on: July 15, 2012, 07:06:01 am »

Can someone link me to 'Unofficial Morrowind Code Patch'? I'm following a guide to fix/patch/mod this game and this is not helping. It also isn't a very Googleable mod.

I wish installing mods wasn't so hard with this game :(. It all seems so easy, until my computer inevitably crashes.

edit: nevermindihaveititwasonthefirstresultofgoofleiamanidiot

Nevermind the previous nevermind. The mod seems to be gone. I guess I'll just play vanilla.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 07:11:29 am by Dutchling »
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Alastar

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #206 on: July 15, 2012, 07:49:05 am »

They're all troubled games with dull, broken rulesets and excessive padding.

Daggerfall is a vast sandbox with enough interesting lore to make it mostly forgivable.
Morrowind and Oblivion were steps from "abitious but broken" to "acceptably mainstream", losing more than they gained. Skyrim can finally pass as acceptably mainstream without embarassing itself.
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sluissa

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #207 on: July 15, 2012, 10:19:33 am »

Can someone link me to 'Unofficial Morrowind Code Patch'? I'm following a guide to fix/patch/mod this game and this is not helping. It also isn't a very Googleable mod.

I wish installing mods wasn't so hard with this game :(. It all seems so easy, until my computer inevitably crashes.

edit: nevermindihaveititwasonthefirstresultofgoofleiamanidiot

Nevermind the previous nevermind. The mod seems to be gone. I guess I'll just play vanilla.

I have a vague memory that the last time I tried to patch/mod morrowind, that code patch had been obsoleted and wrapped up into something else. I really can't remember what though and I don't have time to do a thorough search at the moment.
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Teneb

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #208 on: July 15, 2012, 10:46:49 am »

Can someone link me to 'Unofficial Morrowind Code Patch'? I'm following a guide to fix/patch/mod this game and this is not helping. It also isn't a very Googleable mod.

I wish installing mods wasn't so hard with this game :(. It all seems so easy, until my computer inevitably crashes.

edit: nevermindihaveititwasonthefirstresultofgoofleiamanidiot

Nevermind the previous nevermind. The mod seems to be gone. I guess I'll just play vanilla.

I have a vague memory that the last time I tried to patch/mod morrowind, that code patch had been obsoleted and wrapped up into something else. I really can't remember what though and I don't have time to do a thorough search at the moment.
The code patch works fine for me. I think it can be found in the TES Nexus.
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Dutchling

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Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #209 on: July 15, 2012, 10:50:16 am »

>rented a room at an inn
>there were two rooms downstairs, which one did I rent?
>who cares, picked the left one and stashed my skooma in the chest
>hours later I return for my skooma
>I had rented the right one
>everyone in the inn runs at me screaming about my life and how it is going to end very soon
>they were right

About the patch, I'm playing vanilla now. With the unofficial patch. Just not the code patch.
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