Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Please vote wich game is better (if you played all of them, or know them somewhat well enough) and comment on why did you chose that, thank you.

Morrowind (with Tribunal and Bloodmoon)
- 124 (58.8%)
Oblivion (with Shivering Isles)
- 16 (7.6%)
Skyrim
- 51 (24.2%)
Daggerfall
- 16 (7.6%)
Arena
- 4 (1.9%)

Total Members Voted: 209


Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 22

Author Topic: The Elder Scrolls  (Read 55711 times)

Urist McScoopbeard

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damnit Scoopz!
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #210 on: July 15, 2012, 12:10:29 pm »

They're all troubled games with dull, broken rulesets and excessive padding.

Daggerfall is a vast sandbox with enough interesting lore to make it mostly forgivable.
Morrowind and Oblivion were steps from "abitious but broken" to "acceptably mainstream", losing more than they gained. Skyrim can finally pass as acceptably mainstream without embarassing itself.

I hope you reaelize that in no way is mainstream a good thing. Not that skyrim is bad but mainstream-ness really destroyed what it could have been.
Logged
This conversation is getting disturbing fast, disturbingly erotic.

towerdude

  • Bay Watcher
  • Legendary elf skin tanner
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #211 on: July 15, 2012, 03:59:10 pm »

I am so glad for this topic. I really don't like spoilers, but if it is a spoiler about something, which I know I couldn't normally discover or deduce or never suspected to be that deep, than I am glad for the person who reveals what is under the shroud of mystery.
 
Thank you all of you guys for this (I believe I am correct if I say the users of Dwarf Fortress are better at figurative thinking):
http://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-1/
http://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-2/
http://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-3/
http://fallingawkwardly.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/the-metaphysics-of-morrowind-part-4/
 
As the guy stated: "Elder Scrolls lore is layered, multifaceted and chaotic, like a… a crystalline, non-Euclidean onion" and this is only one aspect of it.
 
I for example interpreted this passage differently:
“The immobile warrior is never fatigued. He cuts sleep holes in the middle of a battle to regain his strength.” - 36 Lessons,  Sermon 23
“I do that too,” I smirked, “it’s called taking health potions in the inventory screen while the game is paused.”
 
When I first read this sermon, the immobile warrior for me was the immobile (additional detail: plump and basement-dweller) body of a player, who can save and quit the game, and sleep. His time in reality however is at instant from the perspective of the game world, ergo the "immobile (keyboard) warrior" is never fatigued.
 
One thing reading one's abstract explanation, or his/her own writing (no matter if it is scientific, philosophical, religious or mythological), and actually understanding it. But creating such intricate works on your own is another.
 
I talk about creations that are not arbitrary. You could create works only for yourself for the sake creation, that act is authorative in itself, but that doesn't mean the work itself will become or remain arbitrary. I hate those who see a painting or a novel, and prise it because other people did the same (presumably socially important figures), yet when it comes to the importance of the work to them, or the meaning of it, they stay silent. Sometimes it is also the fault of the creator, who knowingly designed something with no inherent message, and invent later some pseudo explanation, what is clearly has no connection to it (even if we couldn't exactly know what the artist had in mind during the act of work, there are always good leads if it is an arbitrary connection).
 
However if the creation, becomes more in itself , capable of transcending its original meaninglessness, it defeats the arbitrariness which it was designed in. However there is a limit of this, which depends on the complexity (how much free "intellectual area") and also on the context of said work.
 
A satirical joke:

 
An actual piece of art that costs 1 million dollars.

 
So what is the point of all that? I though about it, what would an aliens species think about the Elder Scrolls, and how would they interpret it (books in it), if some of us humans ourselves, couldn't get the covert messages without help. This also reminds me that the story of Antigone itself, has at least 7 mainstream interpretations.
 
However I am not just thankful for you guys, but also for myself :P, since I started this thread, and without that i would never come to this "obscure knowledge", about the lore.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 04:00:46 pm by towerdude »
Logged
Szuvas Fogbank the Skinny Innocent Inn-Dinner of Spinning

The spinning ☼dwarf leather earring☼ strikes the Spirit of Fire in the lower body!
The lower body flies off in an arc!

A new crazy succession game! Are you up to the challange? http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114041.0

cameron

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #212 on: July 15, 2012, 04:45:39 pm »

They're all troubled games with dull, broken rulesets and excessive padding.

Daggerfall is a vast sandbox with enough interesting lore to make it mostly forgivable.
Morrowind and Oblivion were steps from "abitious but broken" to "acceptably mainstream", losing more than they gained. Skyrim can finally pass as acceptably mainstream without embarassing itself.

I hope you reaelize that in no way is mainstream a good thing. Not that skyrim is bad but mainstream-ness really destroyed what it could have been.

I think the point was that morrowind and oblivion had moved further and further away the grand ambitions in world and lore which had been daggerfall's advantage, without a comparable increase in polish and accessibility. In any case I don't think someone saying something can "can finally pass as acceptably mainstream without embarassing itself." is really a glowing recommendation
Logged

Domenique

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #213 on: July 16, 2012, 01:53:53 am »

They're all troubled games with dull, broken rulesets and excessive padding.

Daggerfall is a vast sandbox with enough interesting lore to make it mostly forgivable.
Morrowind and Oblivion were steps from "abitious but broken" to "acceptably mainstream", losing more than they gained. Skyrim can finally pass as acceptably mainstream without embarassing itself.

I hope you reaelize that in no way is mainstream a good thing. Not that skyrim is bad but mainstream-ness really destroyed what it could have been.

I think the point was that morrowind and oblivion had moved further and further away the grand ambitions in world and lore which had been daggerfall's advantage, without a comparable increase in polish and accessibility. In any case I don't think someone saying something can "can finally pass as acceptably mainstream without embarassing itself." is really a glowing recommendation

A game like dagerfall is impossible considering the costs of creating a video game. All video games got reduced in scope in favour of graphics.
Logged

Heron TSG

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Seal Goddess
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #214 on: July 16, 2012, 01:56:36 am »

Except for that one relating to the forum you're having this discussion on?
Logged

Est Sularus Oth Mithas
The Artist Formerly Known as Barbarossa TSG

Domenique

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #215 on: July 16, 2012, 04:15:21 am »

Except for that one relating to the forum you're having this discussion on?

Non-commercial springs to my mind :P.
Logged

Sordid

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #216 on: July 16, 2012, 05:38:06 am »

A game like dagerfall is impossible considering the costs of creating a video game. All video games got reduced in scope in favour of graphics.

I don't think so. Daggerfall is almost entirely procedurally generated, mostly empty, and composed of only a few building blocks that keep repeating. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to create such a game today. I'd say the reason such games are no longer made is not because of cost but rather because a game where every town looks like every other town and the vast areas between towns are composed of completely empty flat ground is not very interesting. In terms of sheer scope, Minecraft springs to mind. It has a huge world with towns filled with NPCs and lots of underground areas with monsters. But unlike Daggerfall, MC's world is at least interactive, there's stuff to do everywhere. In DF there's no point ever venturing out of a town, because the areas outside the settlements are completely empty and the distances between points of interest are so vast that the odds of finding something interesting by accident are microscopic.
Logged

Domenique

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #217 on: July 16, 2012, 05:43:04 am »

A game like dagerfall is impossible considering the costs of creating a video game. All video games got reduced in scope in favour of graphics.

I don't think so. Daggerfall is almost entirely procedurally generated, mostly empty, and composed of only a few building blocks that keep repeating. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to create such a game today. I'd say the reason such games are no longer made is not because of cost but rather because a game where every town looks like every other town and the vast areas between towns are composed of completely empty flat ground is not very interesting. In terms of sheer scope, Minecraft springs to mind. It has a huge world with towns filled with NPCs and lots of underground areas with monsters. But unlike Daggerfall, MC's world is at least interactive, there's stuff to do everywhere. In DF there's no point ever venturing out of a town, because the areas outside the settlements are completely empty and the distances between points of interest are so vast that the odds of finding something interesting by accident are microscopic.

What I was trying to say is that generated environs are useless and boring, and to really expand the scope you must cough up some cash. That's why other departaments (writing, music, etc.) might and do get punished. Writing in Skyrim and Oblivion compared to Morrowind wasn't exactly superb, though Morrowind's graphics right now look like a joke.
Logged

Supercharazad

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #218 on: July 16, 2012, 05:48:28 am »

A game like dagerfall is impossible considering the costs of creating a video game. All video games got reduced in scope in favour of graphics.

I don't think so. Daggerfall is almost entirely procedurally generated, mostly empty, and composed of only a few building blocks that keep repeating. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to create such a game today. I'd say the reason such games are no longer made is not because of cost but rather because a game where every town looks like every other town and the vast areas between towns are composed of completely empty flat ground is not very interesting. In terms of sheer scope, Minecraft springs to mind. It has a huge world with towns filled with NPCs and lots of underground areas with monsters. But unlike Daggerfall, MC's world is at least interactive, there's stuff to do everywhere. In DF there's no point ever venturing out of a town, because the areas outside the settlements are completely empty and the distances between points of interest are so vast that the odds of finding something interesting by accident are microscopic.

What I was trying to say is that generated environs are useless and boring, and to really expand the scope you must cough up some cash. That's why other departaments (writing, music, etc.) might and do get punished. Writing in Skyrim and Oblivion compared to Morrowind wasn't exactly superb, though Morrowind's graphics right now look like a joke.

>Get mods for morrowind
>Graphics beautiful
Logged

Domenique

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #219 on: July 16, 2012, 07:36:14 am »

>Get mods for morrowind
>Graphics beautiful

Still from a technical viewpoint the animations are clumsy and the engine is outdated. The mods are not always well optimised. Make no mistake though, I love, love Morrowind.
Logged

Haspen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cthuwu
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #220 on: July 16, 2012, 09:42:36 am »

Morrowind

I just noticed something in Sermon 36 (English version) - If you take first letter of each paragraph besides the last, you get
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh, and some Vivec x Molag Bal things, Sermon 12:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged
SigFlags!
Fire Emblem on Forums: 8! + 6re!
Quote from: Draignean@Spamkingdom+
Truly, we have the most uniquely talented spy network in all existence.
Quote from: mightymushroom@Spamkingdom#
Please tell me the Royal Physician didn't go to the same college as the Spymaster.

Cecilff2

  • Bay Watcher
  • PikaaAAAAあああああ
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #221 on: July 16, 2012, 10:27:26 am »

For those of you who are wondering what happened to the dwemer.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/final-report-trebonius
was confirmed by devs.
Logged
There comes a time when you must take off the soft, furry slippers of a boy and put on the shoes of a man.
Unless of course they don't fit properly and your feet blister up like bubble wrap.
Oh ho ho, but don't try to return the shoes, because they won't take them back once you've worn them.
Especially if that fat pig Tony is at the desk.

Eagle_eye

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #222 on: July 16, 2012, 12:55:38 pm »

Wasn't it already established that they disappeared from Mundus? I thought the question was to whether or not they still existed in some form, or had been destroyed.
Logged

Cecilff2

  • Bay Watcher
  • PikaaAAAAあああああ
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #223 on: July 16, 2012, 01:27:26 pm »

Wasn't it already established that they disappeared from Mundus? I thought the question was to whether or not they still existed in some form, or had been destroyed.

Summary of that final report

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged
There comes a time when you must take off the soft, furry slippers of a boy and put on the shoes of a man.
Unless of course they don't fit properly and your feet blister up like bubble wrap.
Oh ho ho, but don't try to return the shoes, because they won't take them back once you've worn them.
Especially if that fat pig Tony is at the desk.

towerdude

  • Bay Watcher
  • Legendary elf skin tanner
    • View Profile
Re: Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim
« Reply #224 on: July 17, 2012, 09:44:24 am »

Wasn't it already established that they disappeared from Mundus? I thought the question was to whether or not they still existed in some form, or had been destroyed.

Summary of that final report

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Shit, I didn't know that. Now that is the kind of spoiler I don't like.

Anyone noticed the two dwarves having sex in the dwarf city under Mournhold?
Logged
Szuvas Fogbank the Skinny Innocent Inn-Dinner of Spinning

The spinning ☼dwarf leather earring☼ strikes the Spirit of Fire in the lower body!
The lower body flies off in an arc!

A new crazy succession game! Are you up to the challange? http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=114041.0
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 22