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[delphonso]

My mother, as a child, told all the other kids at her school that Santa wasn't real. Upset, the parents called my grandmother to complain that "she told my kid that Santa wasn't real!" My grandmother responded with, "You know he isn't, right?"

I didn't know a single kid growing up who believed in Santa - I was raised in a pretty Christain area in North Carolina, who probably dismissed Santa as how Satan spells his name to trick you.

[feelotraveller]

The short answer is yes, and yes.

Slightly longer.  Coca-cola.  Yep, I'm not joking.  The modern version of santa claus comes straight from coca-cola advertising.  There are older longer standing european traditions such as st. nicolaus and father christmas that it draws upon, but these are quite different on so many metrics.

Oh, and hyper-captialism. 

To be honest you are one of the lucky few. 

[Reelya]

Yeah I did think that too however more modern sources say the Coca Cola thing is myth

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/dec/21/coca-cola-didnt-invent-santa-the-10-biggest-christmas-myths-debunked

1 Coca-Cola designed the modern Santa Claus as part of an advertising campaign

This is one you always hear at dinner parties. It makes the speaker sound rather clever and cynical. Except it’s tosh. Coca-Cola did start using Santa in advertising in 1933. But Santa had been portrayed almost exclusively in red from the early 19th century and most of his modern image was put together by cartoonist Thomas Nast in the 1870s. Even if you were to confine your search to Santa in American soft drinks adverts, you would find a thoroughly modern Santa Claus in the posters for White Rock that came out in 1923.

Here's an example of a Thomas Nast Santa, from 1881:

[wierd]

Krampus is the REAL christmas celebrity.  Features prominently in many European christmas cards.  Good fellow. Eats rotten children, and makes the world a better place.

[Reelya]

In case anyone missed it as it's on the bottom of the last page, the Coca Cola Santa theory is bunk, as the guy who popularized what Santa looks like now was doing it from the 1860s-1880s. (he was an influential newspaper cartoonist who also gave us Democrats = Donkeys and Republicans = Elephants).

The image on the last page predates the formation of the Coca Cola company by 5 years. Yeah, I believed it for many years too, however the whole thing turns out to be an urban legend.

[Fire and Glory]

I didn't know a single kid growing up who believed in Santa - I was raised in a pretty Christain area in North Carolina, who probably dismissed Santa as how Satan spells his name to trick you.

My own upbringing was fairly Christian which probably has more to do with whether or not you get told of the jolly red man than what part of the Anglosphere you're raised in, now that I think of it. Though I still wonder if the Santa myth is well circulated outside of that.

[Reelya]

I don't think atheist parents were as nihilistic as you seem to think. Telling kids about Santa is about as common as the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy. There's no Santa in the bible.

[Fire and Glory]

I don't think atheist parents were as nihilistic as you seem to think. Telling kids about Santa is about as common as the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy. There's no Santa in the bible.

I was referring more to the Christian side rather. If you're educating your children about the yearly celebration of the birth of Christ, there's not much point in throwing Santa into things.

[Reelya]

In Soviet Russia, it was the good children who got the lump of coal for Christmas.

[Fire and Glory]

All the better to keep the house warm.

[delphonso]

I don't think atheist parents were as nihilistic as you seem to think. Telling kids about Santa is about as common as the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy. There's no Santa in the bible.

I was referring more to the Christian side rather. If you're educating your children about the yearly celebration of the birth of Christ, there's not much point in throwing Santa into things.

This is sort of how I was raised to understand it - Santa was for non-Christians. Which is pretty silly, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's a common view point. I think Santa is bigger than the actual practice of lying to your children. Santa is a pretty uncontroversial and marketable image. So, he's pretty widespread.

Also - the Nast Santa thing is cool, thanks. In Soviet Russia it was the good children who got the Coca Coal Santa.

[feelotraveller]

The history of Santa Claus is as american as apple pie. The retooling of various european folklore elements starts back around 1830 (in manhattan?) if I remember correctly... that's where the sleigh comes from  Certainly coca cola did not invent santa claus (that would be an urban legend) but the modern iconic image crystalises in its advertising in the early1930's.

https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/santa-coca-cola

In the early 1930s, Coca-Cola turned to Haddon H. Sundblom, an advertising artist with the D'Arcy Agency, to design a new Santa. Sundblom redrew Santa Claus as a plump, cheerful man with snow-white hair and dressed him in red and white—colors that had already become associated with Santa, but which happily matched Coca-Cola's signature colors. Sundblom even provided a Mrs. Claus, based on his own wife. Today, it is Sundblom's Santa who decorates everything from Coca-Cola cans to Christmas sweaters, from greeting cards to home décor, all because Coca-Cola wanted to increase its winter sales.

Seem to remember that there was a lot of debauchery around xmas time back in the earlyish 1800's which would certainly inspire a puritan opposition to the whole notion.

[methylatedspirit]

Why do people care about gender, especially gender roles? Why are gender roles so ingrained, especially in conservative regions? Why do people bother with them if (to my heavily-biased understanding) all they do is limit what people can and can't do, causing them to be unable to express themselves however they want?

[wierd]

Because their world is tiny, in a tiny box, with blinders on.

[scriver]

The history of Santa Claus is as american as apple pie. The retooling of various european folklore elements starts back around 1830 (in manhattan?) if I remember correctly... that's where the sleigh comes from  Certainly coca cola did not invent santa claus (that would be an urban legend) but the modern iconic image crystalises in its advertising in the early1930's.

https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/santa-coca-cola

In the early 1930s, Coca-Cola turned to Haddon H. Sundblom, an advertising artist with the D'Arcy Agency, to design a new Santa. Sundblom redrew Santa Claus as a plump, cheerful man with snow-white hair and dressed him in red and white—colors that had already become associated with Santa, but which happily matched Coca-Cola's signature colors. Sundblom even provided a Mrs. Claus, based on his own wife. Today, it is Sundblom's Santa who decorates everything from Coca-Cola cans to Christmas sweaters, from greeting cards to home décor, all because Coca-Cola wanted to increase its winter sales.

Seem to remember that there was a lot of debauchery around xmas time back in the earlyish 1800's which would certainly inspire a puritan opposition to the whole notion.

This is false, as Reelya already expounded upon. The only traits of the modern Santa that differentiates him from 19th century Santa is the red and white colours look, which predates Coca-Cola. The whole fat, white-haired, bearded and jolly parts are all traits of the 19th century Santa as well.

Here are some works from late 19th or early 20th century by Jenny Nyström, the cementer of the image of the Swedish Santa equivalent, "Tomten", where you can still see the clear house elf origins, exhibiting all of those traits except maybe excessive rotundness:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I also strongly doubt the sleigh comes from anywhere. Sleighs are just how people got around in winter. Everywhere.

Why do people care about gender, especially gender roles? Why are gender roles so ingrained, especially in conservative regions? Why do people bother with them if (to my heavily-biased understanding) all they do is limit what people can and can't do, causing them to be unable to express themselves however they want?

Because norms for behaviour and expectations are tied very closely to what people consider virtuous and what gives you social clout and repute.