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[Rolan7]

It goes back to that problem of intentional misgendering.
If he or she made their gender clear, and you still use they/them...  That's an act of disrespect, right? 

If anyone, cis or trans, tells you how you should refer to them, and you don't respect that - that's disrespect.

They/them is valid when you honestly don't know someone's gender.  When you're responding to strangers.  But it's not okay to call a transman "they" when you know his gender.

We want they/them.  They don't.

[scriver]

Or, of course, in plural

[Kagus]

Or, of course, in plural

Hims

[delphonso]

Like at church?

[MaxTheFox]

I somewhat care about my gender but I don't care if people refer to me as "they".

[Kagus]

Like at church?

Exactly! This is also why women shouldn't be allowed.

[King Zultan]

Like at church?

Exactly! This is also why women shouldn't be allowed.

But if the women don't go to church how will they stop being godless heathens?

[Eschar]

Like at church?

Exactly! This is also why women shouldn't be allowed.

But if the women don't go to church how will they stop being godless heathens?

They ask their husbands at home, obviously (epistle to Timothy, IIRC.)

I somewhat care about my gender but I don't care if people refer to me as "they".

I feel no reason not consider myself a cis male but I don't know what being male means if that makes sense

[Rolan7]

So I fell down on something last night and now my lower left ribcage hurts really bad, but only when I move certain ways.  There's no visible sign of bruising, but I can poke it without experiencing blinding pain and there's no "give" so I'm pretty sure it isn't broken.  It's super annoying though because it's hard to stand up.  It's probably bruised, right?

Jeez, imagine participating in the health care system and paying thousands of dollars to lay in bed and develop a painkiller addiction.

[methylatedspirit]

I feel no reason not consider myself a cis male but I don't know what being male means if that makes sense

I mean, it's not like most men have much of a clue of what being a man is supposed to entail (though I'm probably heavily biased; see: agender). I know there's like some people going around, saying stuff like "If you don't love your truck and hate your wife, you're not a real man!". But that's a minority. I'm sure most men just don't give much of a shit, unless if it's "blatantly" (hard term to define, sorry) not-masculine.

Nonsense like this led me to the conclusion that gender roles are mostly bullshit, which is part of why I don't bother with a gender now. Like, do what you want, but don't make others do what you want. I don't imagine you'll come to a conclusion quite as drastic as mine. I'm just stating how I feel about it.

[Eschar]

I feel no reason not consider myself a cis male but I don't know what being male means if that makes sense

I mean, it's not like most men have much of a clue of what being a man is supposed to entail (though I'm probably heavily biased; see: agender). I know there's like some people going around, saying stuff like "If you don't love your truck and hate your wife, you're not a real man!". But that's a minority. I'm sure most men just don't give much of a shit, unless if it's "blatantly" (hard term to define, sorry) not-masculine.

Nonsense like this led me to the conclusion that gender roles are mostly bullshit, which is part of why I don't bother with a gender now. Like, do what you want, but don't make others do what you want. I don't imagine you'll come to a conclusion quite as drastic as mine. I'm just stating how I feel about it.

I understand what you're saying. However, I don't mean knowing what it is to "be a man", i.e. carry out socially "male" roles. I mean I don't know if there's supposed to be an "internal experience" of "male-ness", i.e. if the only way to know I'm male is "welp, I was born in a masculine body and I've never felt dysphoric." Am I "supposed" to feel connected to this body in any way other than "huh, here I am"?

I guess that's just what being cis is. I don't have to notice anything about my gender, it just is the same as the body I roam the earth in.

[TD1]

It's kinda misleading to say "I'm in a body which is" IMO.

Your body is you; you aren't simply in it.

Any quibbling about gender identity is just a negotiation concerning social expectations.

In other words, you don't DRIVE the Hyundai. You ARE the Hyundai.

[methylatedspirit]

Give or take, that works for cis people. Trans people... my understanding is that their mind's gender does not match their body. Now, I technically count as trans (I sure as hell wasn't assigned "nonbinary" at birth), but let's restrict ourselves to binary trans people. So, to use your analogy, instead of being happy being a Hyundai, they want to become a Toyota, but they're a Hyundai physically. Yes, that is probably the stupidest analogy I've ever come up with.

There's a conflict, and the only way to resolve it is to become the opposite gender (again, ignoring nonbinary people; lies to children and all that). This involves a lot of things, from changing clothing and mannerisms to injecting hormones to surgery. It depends on the ability of that person which of those things they do. Some people everything, but some only do a few things. It doesn't make them any less trans because they don't wish to do this or that; there's probably something underlying preventing them from doing so, and some people just don't feel comfortable taking drastic measures.

Of course, it's entirely possible to say that gender is cultural and it shouldn't matter, but it's sorta ingrained, isn't it? From a young age, you're taught: "This is a boy, and this is a girl." So it would make sense, then, when someone doesn't feel like they fit in the box that they've been given, that they'd try to move away from it. Sometimes it's just a bit of a phase (see: r/notlikeothergirls), but often it represents a difference in identity from the "norm" (cis, heterosexual). Whether it's just being gay/bisexual/something else, or if it involves a change of gender (or both! They're not mutually-exclusive.), it depends on the person.

Me, I became agender because... the idea of being a man just didn't sit right with me. It would take 10 years in brain-time to fetch my gender from the giant archive that is my long-term memory. In hindsight, I should've noticed; slow information retrieval is a very strong indicator of reluctance about the topic. But now I've changed, it makes a whole lot more sense to me. Being addressed as nonbinary makes me legitimately happy; I believe the term is "gender euphoria", the opposite of "gender dysphoria".

And that's sort of the thing about trans people. It makes them happy to be the gender they want to be, and how they go about it is dependent on them. Me, I couldn't care less. I'll continue to look the same as I did before. Some, they go through some fairly major changes to be that gender. And in the end, is that not what you and everyone else wants in life? To be happy with who you are? To be comfortable in your own skin? Why ruin someone else's happiness, as long as it's not hurting others?

I'd like to end with this very simple phrase: "Don't be an asshole."

[Rose]

I feel no reason not consider myself a cis male but I don't know what being male means if that makes sense

I mean, it's not like most men have much of a clue of what being a man is supposed to entail (though I'm probably heavily biased; see: agender). I know there's like some people going around, saying stuff like "If you don't love your truck and hate your wife, you're not a real man!". But that's a minority. I'm sure most men just don't give much of a shit, unless if it's "blatantly" (hard term to define, sorry) not-masculine.

Nonsense like this led me to the conclusion that gender roles are mostly bullshit, which is part of why I don't bother with a gender now. Like, do what you want, but don't make others do what you want. I don't imagine you'll come to a conclusion quite as drastic as mine. I'm just stating how I feel about it.

I understand what you're saying. However, I don't mean knowing what it is to "be a man", i.e. carry out socially "male" roles. I mean I don't know if there's supposed to be an "internal experience" of "male-ness", i.e. if the only way to know I'm male is "welp, I was born in a masculine body and I've never felt dysphoric." Am I "supposed" to feel connected to this body in any way other than "huh, here I am"?

I guess that's just what being cis is. I don't have to notice anything about my gender, it just is the same as the body I roam the earth in.

Which is exactly the thing. If there's nothing wrong, nothing seems out of the ordinary.

If you're wearing a pair of shoes that fit you, and are wearing them the right way, you hardly notice they're there.

But if you're wearing them with left and right swapped, or they're the wrong size, suddenly you are far more aware of them and you automatically know that something's wrong. (Unless you've been wearing your shoes on the wrong feet your entire life and you assume it's supposed to feel that uncomfortable, until somebody shows you how to swap them)

It's the same thing with my body, which I didn't realize how wrong it really was until I started taking steps to correct it.

[Eschar]

I feel no reason not consider myself a cis male but I don't know what being male means if that makes sense

I mean, it's not like most men have much of a clue of what being a man is supposed to entail (though I'm probably heavily biased; see: agender). I know there's like some people going around, saying stuff like "If you don't love your truck and hate your wife, you're not a real man!". But that's a minority. I'm sure most men just don't give much of a shit, unless if it's "blatantly" (hard term to define, sorry) not-masculine.

Nonsense like this led me to the conclusion that gender roles are mostly bullshit, which is part of why I don't bother with a gender now. Like, do what you want, but don't make others do what you want. I don't imagine you'll come to a conclusion quite as drastic as mine. I'm just stating how I feel about it.

I understand what you're saying. However, I don't mean knowing what it is to "be a man", i.e. carry out socially "male" roles. I mean I don't know if there's supposed to be an "internal experience" of "male-ness", i.e. if the only way to know I'm male is "welp, I was born in a masculine body and I've never felt dysphoric." Am I "supposed" to feel connected to this body in any way other than "huh, here I am"?

I guess that's just what being cis is. I don't have to notice anything about my gender, it just is the same as the body I roam the earth in.

Which is exactly the thing. If there's nothing wrong, nothing seems out of the ordinary.

If you're wearing a pair of shoes that fit you, and are wearing them the right way, you hardly notice they're there.

But if you're wearing them with left and right swapped, or they're the wrong size, suddenly you are far more aware of them and you automatically know that something's wrong. (Unless you've been wearing your shoes on the wrong feet your entire life and you assume it's supposed to feel that uncomfortable, until somebody shows you how to swap them)

It's the same thing with my body, which I didn't realize how wrong it really was until I started taking steps to correct it.

It's kinda misleading to say "I'm in a body which is" IMO.

Your body is you; you aren't simply in it.

Any quibbling about gender identity is just a negotiation concerning social expectations.

In other words, you don't DRIVE the Hyundai. You ARE the Hyundai.

Ok, I think I see now. Thanks for the explanations!