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Author Topic: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]  (Read 667073 times)

Rolan7

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6870 on: January 15, 2021, 05:01:31 am »

Seems like the important factor would what columns have the least number of lines of text (while nonzero, AKA blank).  Otherwise the thinness could be practically infinite in most cases, as long as there are at least a few lines to compare to the rest of the strips.

Of course the sheer number of strips to compare to each other would be a computation issue as they get more numerous.  It'd grow roughly with the square of the number of strips, maybe?  Maybe somewhere around the 1.5 power because you don't have to compare each strip to *every* other strip, because that would be duplicating comparisons.  It's 5AM right now it's probably not the 1.5 power.  I guess you could stop checking once you get a match, but you probably want to check every single pair of strips because it's possible to get false matches (if vanishingly likely with multiple lines of text).
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methylatedspirit

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6871 on: January 15, 2021, 07:06:51 am »

Now that I think of it, I suppose the naive brute-force method, going through all permutations of the set of n columns would grow to infeasible levels before long. That's n pick n, which is n!. I think that's an asymptotic complexity of "Holy fuck". I'm pretty sure n = 100 would take long enough that the entire cumulative computational resources of Earth from the start to the end of human civilization could be used to brute-force those 100 columns for the entire lifespan of the universe, and it still wouldn't be enough to reconstruct the original document.

So I think I've established that it's probably infeasible for any high amount of n. Then again, would it even be theoretically possible to actually solve, given only the shredded remains of what used to be a document? I guess it's like sorting, but you don't really know what order anything goes in until you actually start guessing.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 07:10:19 am by methylatedspirit »
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bloop_bleep

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6872 on: January 15, 2021, 12:34:07 pm »

Well given that documents are generally not random noise you might be able to apply some heuristics. For one if the strips are thin enough, because text is mostly composed of continuous curves, moving from one vertical strip to the next would not change much of the pattern. So strips that are similar probably go together. If you represent both sides of each strip as a sequence of 1s and 0s by being filled in or not you can start looking for similar strip sides by trying to find pairs of strip sides which are on opposite sides of their strips and whose bitwise XOR has few bits set. Just following this heuristic brute force can give you an O(n^2) algorithm, and can probably be improved.

That heuristic would probably be better for non-monospace font than monospace font, because in non-monospace font there are few clean breaks through all lines of text.

Also by looking at a couple of the strips you could try to deduce the font size and where it starts vertically which can inform other heuristics.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 12:41:46 pm by bloop_bleep »
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Iduno

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6873 on: January 15, 2021, 10:38:22 pm »

Can anyone name a band that does better covers than Type O Negative?
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bloop_bleep

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6874 on: January 15, 2021, 11:42:26 pm »

Type A Positive does A+ covers methinks.
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6875 on: January 16, 2021, 12:04:38 am »

Both of those bands are named after blood types. Interesting choices for band names. I wonder if there are bands named after tissues/organs?
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Frumple

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6876 on: January 16, 2021, 06:51:49 am »

Uh, yeah. Pussy Riot is the one I immediately remember 'cause they ended up in the news a fair bit, but there's certainly plenty others.
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MaximumZero

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6877 on: January 16, 2021, 09:26:05 am »

Led Zeppelin is the world's greatest blues cover band.
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Iduno

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6878 on: January 16, 2021, 10:17:30 am »

Led Zeppelin is the world's greatest blues cover band.

Probably. "Stealing blues/jazz songs without giving credit" was a common source of songs for early rock musicians.


Both of those bands are named after blood types. Interesting choices for band names. I wonder if there are bands named after tissues/organs?

Heart?
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scriver

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6879 on: January 16, 2021, 10:27:23 am »

Stealing without giving credit has literally been the basis for the musical profession since times eternal.
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methylatedspirit

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6880 on: January 16, 2021, 10:40:24 am »

When is it influence and when is it stealing? People are influenced by the things around them, and human nature dictates that they must necessarily imitate at least some parts of it. I'm almost certainly "stealing" someone's writing style, "stealing" someone's methods of asking, definitely "stealing" the words I'm using... it's all 'monkey see, monkey do'.

I suppose you could answer "intent", but do you remember why you do things long after it's already happened? Do you remember every single thing you've ever seen, heard, experienced? By the time Led Zeppelin made it big, everyone in that group would've said "Yeah, it's influenced by blues music, but it's not stolen, I swear" if you asked them if they stole things from blues songs. What person in a creative field believes their best work isn't original?
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Ulfarr

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6881 on: January 16, 2021, 11:07:09 am »

I would argue that it has to do with what you end up as the final "product". When one is influenced by something then their product should be something that builts up from the past experience and offers something that wasn't available before. For example consider the first pocket radio, it's clearly influenced by pre existing technology (radio, batteries) but it utilized them in a way that offered something new (using a radio outside). In the same example "stealing" would be to just copy the same pocket radio design.


What person in a creative field believes their best work isn't original?

I'm not sure if they really believe it or if it's just for show, but Laibach (a music band/art group) have claimed that there is no original art.
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Magmacube_tr

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6882 on: January 16, 2021, 11:43:06 am »

Y ar u gæ
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bloop_bleep

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6883 on: January 16, 2021, 11:57:45 am »

Both of those bands are named after blood types. Interesting choices for band names. I wonder if there are bands named after tissues/organs?

I was making a pun... ;)
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MrRoboto75

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6884 on: January 16, 2021, 12:33:55 pm »

"Spleen" would probably be a decent grunge band.
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