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Author Topic: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]  (Read 667017 times)

MrRoboto75

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7695 on: November 06, 2021, 02:58:43 pm »

Does the phrase as illustrated by the band name describe the pumpkins as being of an excellent quality, or does it describe an act of violence upon pumpkins?

or C) They are pumpkins that regularly smash things.
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methylatedspirit

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7696 on: November 14, 2021, 08:30:37 pm »

Do you have issues with sentence termination when they end in a quote (and the quote itself ends), especially if the end quote uses different punctuation from the sentence it's embedded in? For instance:
Quote
You ever say, "Embrace nihilism today!"?

This example is contrived, yes. I've never said this sentence to anyone, and I doubt you'll be going out of your way to say this. The way I write tends to make this a problem. Omitting "!" would mangle the quote, but omitting "?" would mangle the question.

How would you resolve something like this, short of rearranging the sentence to avoid this unsightly punctuation-stacking?

Also, this is more a problem of thinking like a parser, but:
Quote
I'm an idiot, I say shit like "this'll work first time, I swear!".
Inevitably, it doesn't.

I think convention would allow you to omit the full stop, but when I do that, I just see:

Quote
stdin:1:75: error: expected end-of-sentence before start-of-sentence token
    1 |  I'm an idiot, I say shit like "this'll work first time, I swear!"
      |                                                                   ^
      |                                                        <end-of-sentence token>
    2 | Inevitably, it doesn't.
      | ~
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dragdeler

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7697 on: November 24, 2021, 11:04:30 am »

Hey magmacube, what is rifat minare, is it good? sultan serbeth brand
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EuchreJack

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7698 on: November 24, 2021, 11:58:05 pm »

Do you have issues with sentence termination when they end in a quote (and the quote itself ends), especially if the end quote uses different punctuation from the sentence it's embedded in?

Yes, it is actually the bane of my existence.  Try two sentences.  Put the quote into a statement, then follow with a question.

Quote
I heard that you said "Embrace nihilism today!"  Is that true?

The rule is clearer with sentences that end with period, as you can omit the period.

scriver

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7699 on: November 25, 2021, 03:08:41 am »

I find stacking punctuation the better solution, even adding dots behind !"s and ?"s, even if it goes against what I learned in school. Punctuation exist to communicate tone and structure and this means the need to communicate the tone and structure of your words needs to be communicated if they are different from the inflection of the quote.

My realmost issues lie with the including of dots and commas from outside of the context of quotes with  the quotation marks though. That is just wrong no matter what they say.
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EuchreJack

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7700 on: November 25, 2021, 04:21:53 am »

I find stacking punctuation the better solution, even adding dots behind !"s and ?"s, even if it goes against what I learned in school. Punctuation exist to communicate tone and structure and this means the need to communicate the tone and structure of your words needs to be communicated if they are different from the inflection of the quote.

My realmost issues lie with the including of dots and commas from outside of the context of quotes with  the quotation marks though. That is just wrong no matter what they say.

Agree to disagree on the first part.

As for the second, could you provide an example?  My brain isn't wrapping around it, and I'm trying to write better.

Bumber

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7701 on: November 25, 2021, 06:12:41 am »

"Agree to disagree on the first part," said EuchreJack.
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Scoops Novel

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7702 on: November 26, 2021, 07:28:44 am »

Whats the exact opposite of lame? Its not spry, in the semantic sense. Its supposed to capture incapable rather then unfunctional.
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scriver

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7704 on: November 26, 2021, 11:39:02 am »

I find stacking punctuation the better solution, even adding dots behind !"s and ?"s, even if it goes against what I learned in school. Punctuation exist to communicate tone and structure and this means the need to communicate the tone and structure of your words needs to be communicated if they are different from the inflection of the quote.

My realmost issues lie with the including of dots and commas from outside of the context of quotes with  the quotation marks though. That is just wrong no matter what they say.

Agree to disagree on the first part.

As for the second, could you provide an example?  My brain isn't wrapping around it, and I'm trying to write better.
"Agree to disagree on the first part," said EuchreJack.

See Bumber's words. The proper way to write it is to have the comma inside the quote, which I dislike because the  context of the comma is outside of the quote, to communicate the flow of the full sentence and things that while connected to the quote (who said it) is not of the quote itself -- Eucrejack doesn't end his sentences with comma pauses, the comma pause is in how the sentence flows to distinguish pause and continuation between the the quoted part from the "said-jack" part. Therefore it feeld natural to me that the comma should be written outside of the quote marks.

But the Man do not agree.
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dragdeler

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7705 on: November 26, 2021, 12:42:24 pm »

How. I agree with you that seems so wrong.
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Egan_BW

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7706 on: November 26, 2021, 01:14:54 pm »

putting punctuation inside of quotes or outside adds information. If it's just "always put it on this end" then that's a missed opportunity, isn't it?
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dragdeler

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7707 on: November 26, 2021, 01:36:21 pm »

But is it not the supposed rule that puts the comma allways inside that robs us from our freedom? I'll admit I never heard of it, but I'm basically picking among three convention sets, since I learned no same language throughout all my school career and onwards, so I'm not the person to ask.


I guess you could put it inside if you somehow found the cadence but not the rest of the sentence quoteworthy? If you want to point to more being left out, ellipsis (dot-dot-dot, had to look up ellipsis eventhough I overuse them imagine that :D) seems the obvious choice. I'm all for more "freeform" conventions, but like, the way I would read "blabla," makes it a super specific comma. Not that such a wordconstellation couldn't come up... But the question wether to put a space or more ("blabla,"|"blabla," |"blabla, " |) suffices to make it awkward.
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scriver

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7708 on: November 26, 2021, 02:32:33 pm »

putting punctuation inside of quotes or outside adds information. If it's just "always put it on this end" then that's a missed opportunity, isn't it?

Yeah, but like dragdeler says it's the rule that says "always put it inside the quote at the end of quotations" ;)

It gets even worse because if you interfix a "said X" in the middle of a sentence within commas, the "correct" way to do it is to put the comma inside the quotation marks at the end of the quote but then outside of the quotation marks at the end of the next sentence before the quote resumes (iirc), like: "I do like cookies," said scriver, "but I like buns too."
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EuchreJack

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #7709 on: November 26, 2021, 11:19:35 pm »

Yeah, I agree with scriver.  That "proper" way is a misquote.  It doesn't exactly convey what was said.  It lies.
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