Topic: [ORC] Discussion and Download Latest! (v1.42B) (Read 136590 times)

Wrex · « **Reply #105 on:** August 16, 2012, 02:24:11 pm »

I should mention that the very same size you mentioned makes weapon balance tricky. A Subpar weapon could cut through flesh like coherent light with an orc to deliver the swings. I am also having trouble getting Orcs to wield Cuttahs: They seem completely unable to pick them up for some reason, so I gave in and melted them into regular scimitar's, which they promptly wielded. Also, the crude breastplates are ultra expensive trade goods, generally around a thousand orcbux for rusty iron.

smakemupagus · « **Reply #106 on:** August 16, 2012, 02:54:44 pm »

Good catch, I just used the gear that the NPC orcs use for the Slag Pit and haven't looked at it carefully yet. The MINIMUM_SIZE on all of the Orc cutta, basha, etc. in item_weapon_masterwork is jacked up. I will work on those tonight. Also will make sure they are all just slightly less effective than the normal crafted equivalents.

... It's also possible that Meph made the MINIMUM_SIZE so large on purpose specifically to prevent Dwarves from using looted cuttas?

I'd like to make the Crude Breastplate a less effective. Here is it's raw.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was thinking, reduce the coverage to 80 or so. I don't know how to manipulate its value in Orcbux though, though, Wrex. Oh, wow, why is UBSTEP 5?! This lets the breastplate cover if i understand correctly, every body part except those with a GRASP, STANCE or HEAD.

@Meph: Is this on purpose? .. a work around to make up for invaders not having gloves and boots?

_____
regular armors for comparison

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wrex · « **Reply #107 on:** August 16, 2012, 04:08:03 pm »

That is Upstep five?! I have no words to express how large that "crude" armour must be. I would have the armor cover no more than Upstep one, at most. I would, actually, increase the economy value of the batch casting reactions (More products for less metal) But make the breastplates Upstep 1 or 0, with coverage 80, and add a makeshift chain armour underlayer. Be warned though: Slightly less effective is hard to gauge, and should always be done in orc v orc testing. An Orc with a cuttah would be far more dangerous than a dwarf with a sword, simply by virtue of his bulk. Perhaps limit the "makeshift" reaction to foreign weaponry and unusable armour, to stop them from continually reforging one piece of gear?

Also, I could use some help weaponizing the necromantic effects from the totem pole.

smakemupagus · « **Reply #108 on:** August 16, 2012, 04:23:20 pm »

*make the breastplates Upstep 1 or 0, with coverage 80, and add a makeshift chain armour underlayer.

yeah, my thoughts exactly. a question is just whether Meph would rather we modify the core item assets vs. should we make a new version instead.

* Perhaps limit the "makeshift" reaction to foreign weaponry and unusable armour, to stop them from continually reforging one piece of gear?

I don't know how to do this, other than the player doing the stockpile management manually.

* Also, I could use some help weaponizing the necromantic effects from the totem pole.

Ha, yeah, good luck. If it was too easy I couldn't make it available so early in the game right?

Wrex · « **Reply #109 on:** August 16, 2012, 04:28:44 pm »

I'm thinking a custom corpse stockpile, with bridges underneath to drop the zombies onto the battlefield, with the totem pole like right next to it.

See, even with stockpile management, I get orcs forging a cuttah, then reforging that cuttah infinitly. Good for XP, not so good for weaponry production.

I would make a factory easier to make, if you want Orcs to have a strong outdoor presence. and probably make the block crafting reactions more efficent. Yes, twenty block of rebar from a stone and a rusty iron is unrealistic, but you need that kind of production to set up a perimeter before the godawful evil wildlife shows up in any biome.

More reactions for batch casting various weapons and armor would be good, too. Copper clubs are useless, while silver clubs are moderatly effective. Increasing the economy of these reactions would make them more competetitive with the champion orc path, which can get by with five orcs covered head to toe and ripping things in half with bloodsteel claws and mithril katanas.

EDIT: Also, wolf masks count as clothing. This gives migrants very effective head protection, but makes them a pain to replace so often. Perhaps make them armour?

Arbinire · « **Reply #110 on:** August 16, 2012, 05:33:33 pm »

Wow Meph, digging the banners you made up. My favorite is the first by far.

As to the trader/seasons issue in relation to the voting, I think it'd be fun to have more than 4 civs showing up to trade, and especially with the possibility of a few being at war with eachother. Since it's in the code for elves to make demands of dwarves about their lumber industry, would it be possible to set it up so only the home civ shows up statically while the other civs could show up whenever, make demands concerning your trade with other civs, and the like? I know that even if it is possible, it'd be a very ambitious undertaking, but opens up the possibility of a much greater experience than just digging to HFS, either as Dwarves or Orcs.

Meph · « **Reply #111 on:** August 16, 2012, 07:02:21 pm »

Yes and yes. Yes the weapon size is big so that dwarves cant use orc weapons, and yes, the armor covers so much because no boots/gloves.

I will pay more attention to the active seasons, so that they meet with trading arrangements for your orcs.

EDIT: And it would be good if you make an item_orc.txt and put all your custom weapons, armors, shields, toys, tools and so on in there, to keep it simple/seperate

smakemupagus · « **Reply #112 on:** August 16, 2012, 08:34:58 pm »

Got it. So, I will make new versions of the crude weapons then rather than messing with the core assets.

@corrosivechains: Yeah, that would be awesome. Unfortunately I think that not the full range of what you're describing is possible, but I'll try to learn more. We can set the ethics for each entity, and make sure each entity has a position with the responsibility to make TRADE, PEACE, and/or TOPIC agreements; and set a flag that makes the TOPIC be tree cutting quotas. This leads me to think Toady has plans for other kinds of Topics, but I'm not sure I've seen one yet.

edit: Meph, yes, I also have the goal of it being entirely modular if possible (and I have item files

there just was very little in them until the Raiders & Dreamwalkers update in 019). Overwriting item_weapon_masterwork was just temporary, but if you want me to take it out of course I will! I'll just revert to using the core file though, I don't want to maintain a whole nother file with CLUB2, SCIMITAR2, KATANA2, etc. but much rather help give you feedback to best balance the existing ones.

Meph · « **Reply #113 on:** August 16, 2012, 10:08:08 pm »

Any compability and balancing would be void once I start with modding again and do the new version, since I will redo the goblins and orcs I have as one "greenskin" race, together with trolls and ogres. And some wargs as pets. I dont really know how many weapons you will use that are orc-specific, but I can tell you that most of the weapons and armor that are not dwarf-exclusive will be redone by me. Thats why I said it would be better if you do your own file for them. If you rely on the entries in weapons_masterwork and in the next version these entries are missing, you would have a ton of errors in your log.

smakemupagus · « **Reply #114 on:** August 16, 2012, 10:36:21 pm »

Ya, I see. The other way has pitfalls too, for example it could lead to weapons to appear multiple times with the same name on stockpile/military/manager menus. Well, either way we'll work it out.

Chromasphere · « **Reply #115 on:** August 17, 2012, 03:43:41 pm »

Did a quick search and came up empty, so will report: OF1.9e combined with masterwork, axes and picks aren't available. On embark screen, digging implements show crossbows, not picks. When building a fort, carpenter workshop doesn't show/allow creation of axes.

To clarify: embarked using races other than orcs

smakemupagus · « **Reply #116 on:** August 18, 2012, 10:49:05 am »

Quote from: Chromasphere on August 17, 2012, 03:43:41 pm

To clarify: embarked using races other than orcs

That's an important distinction ^^ There aren't that many races without picks, and two of those don't use crossbows ... hmm... Kobolds I guess?

Anyway, Make sure your race has
[DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK] and [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_WOOD] (or any other axe-type weapon)
in the entity definition

ed. To be clear, Orc Fortress supports playing as Orcs, or Dwarves; anything else I'm happy to try to give you pointers, but it'll be your own modding adventure

Arbinire · « **Reply #117 on:** August 18, 2012, 12:12:28 pm »

Yeah, I kinda figured that even if it were possible, it'd be a major pain to work out. Was mostly musing in the "wouldn't it be cool" spectrum.

As to other races not having picks...might be a nice little bug to turn into a "WAI" feature. Like, most people don't really see Elves as a mining type creature, so you'll be forced to keep things above ground(even if you don't get axes to start, you always got your 3 logs from your caravan and training axes still chop down trees).

@Meph, kinda sad you're going with greenskin Warhammer Orcs for Masterwork, but I do commend you for doing so. Masterwork has always been about "what the people want". And it's inspiring me to learn how to mod, once I can make heads and tails of what I'm doing XD(so lost right now at the start).

smakemupagus · « **Reply #118 on:** August 18, 2012, 12:33:26 pm »

Quote from: Wrex on August 16, 2012, 04:28:44 pm

See, even with stockpile management, I get orcs forging a cuttah, then reforging that cuttah infinitly. Good for XP, not so good for weaponry production.

I thought of a potential work around for this, I could have the Slag Pit refitting reaction only accept undecorated weapons, and the reforging process could apply a worthless decoration "encircled with bands of Slag Pit serial number". Will reflect on this and see if I think of anything better.

Perhaps, simply requiring another reagents will help, so that they have to step out of the shop for a moment. Did you see this problem at a Magma Slag pit, right? I haven't seen it so much at regular Slag Pit.

I made the Orcs' own Makeshift, Crude, and Toothed gear, so that going forward they balance separately from the NPC orcs. For now we will continue to use vanilla & MWDF clubs, mauls, scimitars, tomahawks, katanas, etc. For those interested here's a preview.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wrex · « **Reply #119 on:** August 21, 2012, 01:25:21 am »

I noticed an issue with seiges: The war mounts have children, right? And these children are hostile to the parents, right? Well, the giant bat mounts promptly tore their children to pieces, and the projectile bat baby parts promptly began killing the other mounts and their riders.

EDIT: Here is a picture of the natal projectiles:

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Author Topic: [ORC] Discussion and Download Latest! (v1.42B) (Read 136590 times)

Wrex

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

smakemupagus

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

Wrex

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

smakemupagus

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

Wrex

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Arbinire

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

Meph

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

smakemupagus

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

Meph

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

smakemupagus

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

Chromasphere

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

smakemupagus

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

Arbinire

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

smakemupagus

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼

Wrex

Re: Orc Fortress: A new playable civ for ☼MASTERWORK☼