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[weenog]

Ahh, right.  Read in a little too much of a hurry and skipped over some words.  Carry on.

 

[DwarfMeister]

I was thinking about a scenario where the player has just unforbidden the items in a Reclaim fort. All I'm asking is that the hauling priority temporarily be shifted to items that are interfering with construction and those items be placed in a different square. After all, you don't see construction workers stop the construction of a skyscraper just because a homeless guy wants to sleep in the area where they want to construct the building, do you? Of course not!!! They do what is necessary to prepare the area for construction.

[forsaken1111]

Stop making walls over socks and you won't have a problem. If you want socks moved before walls, move the socks before designating the walls.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Dwarves move items out of the way already, as long as they're not forbidden or already marked for a job.

[DwarfMeister]

@Forsaken- I don't like having walls that look like this-

     xxxxx  xxxx    xxxxxxxx        xxxxxx
             xxx    xxxx            xxxxxx

In other words, why should I change my playing style, just because socks are in the way? And for the record, the dwarves will still haul the socks away when they WANT to, so I still have to wait for them to do so. My idea would make it mandatory for them to haul away items blocking build sites.

@Wyrm- I am aware of that. The problem is that I feel inconvenienced every time I have to unsuspend the construction of something because the dwarves were too slow to haul away the offending item.

[forsaken1111]

In other words, why should I change my playing style, just because socks are in the way? And for the record, the dwarves will still haul the socks away when they WANT to, so I still have to wait for them to do so. My idea would make it mandatory for them to haul away items blocking build sites.

I can ask that in reverse... why should he change the game to suit your playstyle? I suggested changing your playstyle because it would avoid the issue which seems to annoy you so much. It isn't hard to prioritize item cleanup in an area before designating walls, after all. And if those socks aren't scheduled to be hauled then the builder will indeed move them out of the way on his own. It is only in the instance that you have a wall designated over an item which is already tagged to be used or moved which you run into this issue, and it is easy to avoid with some forethought.

[DwarfMeister]

I suggested changing your playstyle because it would avoid the issue which seems to annoy you so much.

Next time I see my old man, I will mention that he should change the way he drives when he is stuck in traffic. I'm sure he will be much obliged by me telling him that his driving style sucks...

[forsaken1111]

I suggested changing your playstyle because it would avoid the issue which seems to annoy you so much.

Next time I see my old man, I will mention that he should change the way he drives when he is stuck in traffic. I'm sure he will be much obliged by me telling him that his driving style sucks...

The analogy doesn't fit. Traffic is not something you can control. You have full control over whether or not you designate a construction zone on top of items which are currently queued for hauling. To use your analogy, this would be like your old man demanding that the speed limit be raised so that he can get to work on time rather than leaving the house a few minutes earlier. Change your behavior to fit the environment, because the world isn't going to conform to your wishes.

I mean I'm not telling you that you can't complain, just that complaining is going to do no good. Until Toady makes another pass at hauling, things are going to stay the way they are. You can avoid the issue by ensuring that the construction area is clear of items which your dwarves will be hauling/using. If you continue designating walls on top of items then it is entirely your fault when you get gaps in the wall.

If this WERE changed, we'd have your opposite on the forum RIGHT NOW complaining about job cancellation spam due to items that were moved by builders not respecting the in-use tags.

[DwarfMeister]

I suggested changing your playstyle because it would avoid the issue which seems to annoy you so much.

Next time I see my old man, I will mention that he should change the way he drives when he is stuck in traffic. I'm sure he will be much obliged by me telling him that his driving style sucks...

The analogy doesn't fit. Traffic is not something you can control. You have full control over whether or not you designate a construction zone on top of items which are currently queued for hauling. To use your analogy, this would be like your old man demanding that the speed limit be raised so that he can get to work on time rather than leaving the house a few minutes earlier. Change your behavior to fit the environment, because the world isn't going to conform to your wishes.

I mean I'm not telling you that you can't complain, just that complaining is going to do no good. Until Toady makes another pass at hauling, things are going to stay the way they are. You can avoid the issue by ensuring that the construction area is clear of items which your dwarves will be hauling/using. If you continue designating walls on top of items then it is entirely your fault when you get gaps in the wall.

If this WERE changed, we'd have your opposite on the forum RIGHT NOW complaining about job cancellation spam due to items that were moved by builders not respecting the in-use tags.

It DOES fit. And traffic CAN be controlled. Ever heard of a stoplight? And, for the record, I'm aware that the world isn't at my beck and call. DF, however, can be improved upon. And the improvement that I suggested was for it to be EASIER to build walls in areas that are LITTERED with lots of items. I'm not you and I'm fine with that. If you want to have crooked walls, be my guest, but I consider them to be an eyesore. And when did I say that jobs should be cancelled? I was saying that moving the item should be PART of the building job. What's so hard to understand about that?

[MrWiggles]

The analogy is pretty shitty.

And your suggestion, isn't a small one. Its probably a moderate hack to the job system; it might even pretty invasive. And you simply ignored all the cases where its more important for an item to be picked vs. a construction being placed.

[DwarfMeister]

The analogy is pretty shitty.

Prove it.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I suggested changing your playstyle because it would avoid the issue which seems to annoy you so much.

Next time I see my old man, I will mention that he should change the way he drives when he is stuck in traffic. I'm sure he will be much obliged by me telling him that his driving style sucks...

The analogy doesn't fit. Traffic is not something you can control. You have full control over whether or not you designate a construction zone on top of items which are currently queued for hauling. To use your analogy, this would be like your old man demanding that the speed limit be raised so that he can get to work on time rather than leaving the house a few minutes earlier. Change your behavior to fit the environment, because the world isn't going to conform to your wishes.

I mean I'm not telling you that you can't complain, just that complaining is going to do no good. Until Toady makes another pass at hauling, things are going to stay the way they are. You can avoid the issue by ensuring that the construction area is clear of items which your dwarves will be hauling/using. If you continue designating walls on top of items then it is entirely your fault when you get gaps in the wall.

If this WERE changed, we'd have your opposite on the forum RIGHT NOW complaining about job cancellation spam due to items that were moved by builders not respecting the in-use tags.

It DOES fit. And traffic CAN be controlled. Ever heard of a stoplight?

Your dad controls the stoplights?

And, for the record, I'm aware that the world isn't at my beck and call. DF, however, can be improved upon. And the improvement that I suggested was for it to be EASIER to build walls in areas that are LITTERED with lots of items. I'm not you and I'm fine with that. If you want to have crooked walls, be my guest, but I consider them to be an eyesore. And when did I say that jobs should be cancelled? I was saying that moving the item should be PART of the building job. What's so hard to understand about that?

The items ARE moved, unless a dwarf is already in the middle of moving it. Stop complaining about problems that aren't there.

[MrWiggles]

Next time I see my old man, I will mention that he should change the way he drives when he is stuck in traffic. I'm sure he will be much obliged by me telling him that his driving style sucks...

Alright, so we have the shitty analogy as above. Its doing a really poor job of saying that  you cant adjust your play style because you can't control when their is conflicting jobs when you're placing constructions.

So, for the Analogy to be true, then the above needs to be applicable to how Dwarf Fortress plays.

And this is why it's shitty Analogy.

You're fully capable of controlling hauling or construction placement. Where as with traffic, you'll often be in traffic through happenstance no matter your driving (playing) style.

So, are you always going to ignore the whole hauling is more important vs. construction placement?

[DwarfMeister]

Next time I see my old man, I will mention that he should change the way he drives when he is stuck in traffic. I'm sure he will be much obliged by me telling him that his driving style sucks...

Alright, so we have the shitty analogy as above. Its doing a really poor job of saying that  you cant adjust your play style because you can't control when their is conflicting jobs when you're placing constructions.

So, for the Analogy to be true, then the above needs to be applicable to how Dwarf Fortress plays.

And this is why it's shitty Analogy.

You're fully capable of controlling hauling or construction placement. Where as with traffic, you'll often be in traffic through happenstance no matter your driving (playing) style.

So, are you always going to ignore the whole hauling is more important vs. construction placement?

I am fully capable of those things? How? 'Cause every time I put down stockpiles for items, the dwarves take their precious time to move said items out of the way. If I had control over these things, I wouldn't have suggested this in the first place!!!

I believe that construction and hauling should go hand in hand. That's all. It's not like there's anything wrong with having an opinion, is there?

[MrWiggles]

No one is saying you can't hold your opinion. On the other hand, stop taking fucking offense because folks are contesting your opinion. You are not your opinion.

And yes, setting up stock piles, making dorfs into dedicated haulers and either waiting for an area to be cleared out forst before construction placement or speed it up through garbage designation or using forbid/unforbid.  LOTS OF THINGS YOU CAN DO. Lots of control.

As for your suggestion, it does happen largely without you even knowing. What you're complaining at are job conflicts. You're loosely outline implementation could work but you're choosing to ignore how large of a change that would be, or how many system will need to be adjusted.