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Author Topic: A use for toys  (Read 3107 times)

WanderingKid

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A use for toys
« on: July 25, 2012, 06:20:28 pm »

I'm sure this has been suggested before but poking around the forums and via google I wasn't able to find a direct suggestion.

It'd be nice if you could have toys you've built start building stats into the babies and children who play with them.  For example, toy axes and hammers would help them start training in being axe dwarves and hammerdwarves.  Toy workbenches would help with carpentry or masonry.  Puzzleboxes would help with mechanics or stonecrafting.  You get the idea.

Right now I've got 55 children in a 165 dwarf fort, and most of them are babies.  Apparently sieges give my dwarves a LOT of time to spore.  I'd REALLY like these little buggers to be useful after feeding their fat beardless faces for 12 years, since child removal at this point would cause a spiral of doom.

Besides, it'd be nice if some of these trade goods were actually useful to you, as well.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 08:45:59 pm »

Yup, been suggested. A use for toys is being planned, what exactly it is we aren't sure yet. Footkerchief might know, as might those who spend more time around the FotF thread.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 09:20:15 pm »

Puzzleboxes would train puzzle-solving skills. Until they got tired of trying to solve them, then they'd train mechanics when no one is looking to solve it.
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Rakushun

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2012, 05:23:07 am »

For example, toy axes and hammers would help them start training in being axe dwarves and hammerdwarves.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2012, 09:25:29 am »

For example, toy axes and hammers would help them start training in being axe dwarves and hammerdwarves.

Anyways...toys would probably have some kind of SKILL or TRAINS token. For toy weapons, it would be the weapon skill; mini-forges would probably train some kind of smithing skill. What skills would the other currently-implemented toys train, and what other toys should there be?
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WanderingKid

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2012, 02:34:58 pm »

For example, toy axes and hammers would help them start training in being axe dwarves and hammerdwarves.

Anyways...toys would probably have some kind of SKILL or TRAINS token. For toy weapons, it would be the weapon skill; mini-forges would probably train some kind of smithing skill. What skills would the other currently-implemented toys train, and what other toys should there be?

Heh, yeah, that was kind of wierd with just being quoted without quotes or anything above by others.  I had no idea what it meant so I kind of left the thread alone, figuring it was a really odd way of telling me something.  I'd just had no idea what.  I've also been home ill for a day or two so I figured I was just being possessed by a fey mood.

The reason I'd mentioned puzzleboxes was because the smaller movements would help with the more intricate carving, but yeah, on second thought, it doesn't make as much sense as it did originally.

Here's what I could picture as a set of toys and corresponding skills.  Ones already existing in bold:
Toy Axe, Toy Warhammer, Toy Hammer (Mace), Toy Sword, Toy Spear, Slingshot: Obvious military skills
(Not sure how a 6 lbs sledge is a toy, but hey, they're dwarves)
Jumprope: Dodger
Oversized Doll: Wrestling
Official Dwarven Rock Replica of Fighting Dwarves armor: Armor User
Child sized shield: Shield User
Tinkertoys: Siege Engineer
Crossbows and Catapults, the game in stone: Siege Operator
Pet kitten: Ambusher
Geology Textbook: Miner  (Alternately, instead of having a bookish dwarf, a rock breaking chisel and hammer)
Toy Workbench: Carpenter
Small Hand Axe + Furnace or something in the bedroom: Wood Cutting (DAMMIT SON!  Why's it cold in here?!  MOAR wood!)
Puppy: Animal Training
Any pet: Animal Care
Dwarven Equivalent of Lazer tag: Hunting (Ambushing)
Hamster cage: Trapping
Hamster dissection kit: Surgery/butchery
Hamster cleanup kit: Tanning
Make your own Hamster Belt, the kit!: Leatherworking
My First Injuries Handbook: Diagnosis
Book (yes, I'd like to see books be a little more useful) "Bones, the armor inside you": Setting Bones
Stuffed Animal: Suturing (Do you know how hard a tantruming little tyke IS on those toys?)
Herb Garden: Farming
Herb Dryer: Plant Gathering
Herb Grinder: Milling/Procesing/Pressing
Hair Coloring Kit: Dyeing
Soapmaker/WoodBurner/Potash Making/Lye Making: I can't see dwarves purposely putting their kids near acidic lye or huge burning ovens for any reason on purpose, even if they do carry them into battle as armor...
Home Brewery Kit: Brewing
Toy Bucket: Milking
Toy Churn: Cheese making
Pet Lamb: Shearing
Toy Spindle: Spinning
E-Z-Rock Oven: Cooking
Toy Fishing Rod: Fishing (the rest are kind of 'on the go' I'd think without books)
Rock Tumbler: Gem Cutting
Rhinestone attachment type thingie: Gem Setting
Mini-Forge: Blacksmithing
Toy Soldier, now with new, improved gear!: Armoring
Enemy Soldier, now with new, improved weaponry!: Weaponsmithing
... I'm not quite sure what would fit for the metal ones that wasn't incredibly obvious and something I'd NEVER hand a child in the first place... sorry.
Wood files: Woodcrafting
Hammer and Chisel: Stonecrafting
Bone Files: Bonecrafting
Toy Loom: Weaving
Dolly's first dress: Clothesmaking
Spinning Wheel: Pottery
Rock-doh: Wax Working
Puzzlebox: Mechanics

and finally...
Take your female dwarfriend on a date to the mall!: Any and ALL hauling.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2012, 03:08:44 pm »

Pets aren't toys.

Aside from that:
Why not have a toy mace to train macedwarf and a normal toy hammer train hammerdwarf?
What does dodging have to do with jumping up and down?
Tinker-Toys should probably be architecture or mechanics, if not a huge anachronism.
Crossbows and catapults in toy form would likely train marksdwarf/archery and siege operation, respectively.
Geology textbook? Why would reading about rocks make you a better miner? Even ignoring the whole "book =/= toy" thing, a toy pick or shovel would be a better choice for that.
I can see a toy hatchet or somesuch training woodcutting, maybe. The furnace should be sold separately, and might teach wood burning.
The dwarven equivilant of lazer tag is probably "Shoot him with crummy bolts."
The hamster stuff made me smirk, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea.
"My First Injuries?" LOL. Again, books don't make good toys most of the time, although for diagnosis and such it might be realistic.
Bone-setting should require setting actual bones to train, reading about bones wouldn't help.
Stuffed animals would probably train Stitching or Clothes Repair...for the parent.
Rock tumbler, Toy Loom, Toy Fishing Rod: Ok.
The rest: Not so good...Kinda stupid, and/or anachronistic, often with weak ties between toys and skills.

Let's try to think about toys that dwarves might make, and THEN think of the skills they could train.
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WanderingKid

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2012, 08:26:33 pm »

Pets aren't toys.
You haven't met my puppy.  He swears he's one, but I see your point.  I was more thinking of 'kid training' then toys in particular at that point, and training the animal skills with their own pets just seems to make sense.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold
The rest: Not so good...Kinda stupid, and/or anachronistic, often with weak ties between toys and skills.

Let's try to think about toys that dwarves might make, and THEN think of the skills they could train.
Fair enough.  A lot of that was off the cuff, I agree, and not well enough thought out.  I didn't quite think they were that bad as a starting point but I get your drift.  Some of those references were merely a place-holder until someone (or me, if I ended up with some inspiration) could come up with a better idea.

Quote
What does dodging have to do with jumping up and down?
-- With how often 'dodge' equates to 'jump into nearest magma/water ditch' it seemed the perfect association to my mind.

Quote
Tinker-Toys should probably be architecture or mechanics, if not a huge anachronism.
-- Was more thinking Lincoln-logs ish for architecture, but that goes to 'what do dwarves build'...

Quote
Crossbows and catapults in toy form would likely train marksdwarf/archery and siege operation, respectively.
-- The crossbows in that game were actually ballista.  So without familiarity we'd agree.

Quote
Geology textbook? Why would reading about rocks make you a better miner? Even ignoring the whole "book =/= toy" thing, a toy pick or shovel would be a better choice for that.
-- True, but most of where I could see it going are more along the lines of practical usage experience.  I wouldn't expect a child to go off and mine out a tunnel just so he could play with his friends after being put to bed.  What I'd hoped to do was think of something that could relate to the task and train it without actually having to perform it.  Most of the toy weapons, for example, I'd expect to be fought with friends, etc etc.

Quote
The dwarven equivilant of lazer tag is probably "Shoot him with crummy bolts."
--*snort*laugh* Most likely. 

Quote
The hamster stuff made me smirk, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea.
-- Kittens, then?  We certainly butcher enough of them.

Quote
Stuffed animals would probably train Stitching or Clothes Repair...for the parent.
-- True enough, but I knew enough Human Girls who would run their own toy sewing machine (and these were pretty good, actually).  Then again, I may just be showing my age.

So, from your perspective, I'm approaching this backwards.  Instead of figuring out the toy for the skill, determine appropriate toys and then see if it applies to any skills.  Fill in the blanks, if any, could be done after the fact.  I'll see what comes to mind approaching it from that perspective.

Cthulhu Inc

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2012, 09:17:49 pm »

Expanding on this, there could be an option to allow dwarves (both adult and child) to just try out things as hobbies, w/ the overseer setting which materials they're allowed to use. They'll do this in their spare time (replacing 'on break' with 'hobby' perhaps?) and gain xp from it, making random things if it's a manufacturing skill. Ex. a hobbyist carpenter or smith. Basically, doing random stuff, perferably related to theor preferances (so a dwarf who likes gauntlets will want to make gauntlets in their spare time) For things like engraving and lumberjacking, maybe a certain designation. Each dwarf would have 2-3 different hobbies. As kids get older, they'll start progressing from their toys to the 'grown up' hobbies. So a kid who often spent time playing with a smithing set will have smithing as a hobby.

If you don't want dwarves to use up steel or other important metals for this, you can set steel to not be used for hobbies in a menu.

Actual work takes precedence over hobbies in the case of a workshop skill--the worker will kick out the hobbiest if you assign a task there. Dwarves might get a negative moodlet from getting kicked out.
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Rakushun

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2012, 10:15:03 pm »

Heh, yeah, that was kind of wierd with just being quoted without quotes or anything above by others.  I had no idea what it meant so I kind of left the thread alone, figuring it was a really odd way of telling me something.  I'd just had no idea what.  I've also been home ill for a day or two so I figured I was just being possessed by a fey mood.

Sorry, that other guy whose post is now missing made me think we were playing a game of "Repeat verbatim something the OP said".
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Neonivek

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Re: A use for toys
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2012, 12:28:37 am »

Well the point of toys isn't so much heavy training (at least as far as this game is concerned) but would be involved in child reering.

But really the purpose of toys should be that they are toys and a commodity and that not supplying Townsfolk with things to buy should be bad.

Or just make it so a Toyless kid becomes a street punk... but given this is a fort just kick them out. Though I guess if toys made them not pull pranks.
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