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Author Topic: Voile Fortress - v1.5 - Koas are Striking the Earth  (Read 21127 times)

krisslanza

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.2 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2012, 05:07:05 pm »

So played a bit today. And jotted down some more stuff.

1: I never used the sawmill mod before, but 20 planks per 1 log? Isn't that a bit much? Of note is that the skill uses carpentry of course, and the plank reaction causes the koa to level up in carpentry at a very high rate. Completing 1 plank reaction is like 20 carpenter actions. Try changing your reaction to produce 1000 planks and use a no-skill Koa to do it. You'll get an insta-legendary. xP

2: The reactions to produce mana gems from your normal turnips returns no normal turnip seeds. I suppose that could be a way to keep turnips as a rare commodity, especially since the only way to get seeds from them is to let the koas eat them raw.

3: The mana gem reactions appear to be working as intended. Of note is, mana gems can be cut and encrusted. Perhaps giving them a value can be nice too, so you can use them as a decent decoration source.

4: Books.... Currently seems to have no use for them except as very low value trade goods, considering the 3 leathers and 3 jobs to make one. I suppose the value on it would've been better had I used something better than a dabbling leather worker. But right now, I'd see most people just sticking with their standard uses for leather. Perhaps making books required for the building of the mana furnace and altars would work, as well as make them into reagents with a small chance of being used up in mana reactions. Also if you've ever seen the display case mod, you can do something like that with books. Take 2 blocks and 3 to 5 books or something and build them into a reactionless 1x1 workshop as decoration and call it a bookcase. Could be the Koa equivalent of statues everywhere.

Well I be done for now, if I notice any other oddities or come up with a good Koa idea, I'll let ya know.

Edit: Was thinking since the koas seem to be developing towards a wood based economy vs the usual dwarven stone ones, I'd write a little reaction for them that I may use on the next fort.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wooden mechanisms for the Koas.

1. I did not realize that it made Carpentry level up so fast like that. I think the original mod was a 1 to 5 thing... but as I was making a lot of towns, and I felt bad deforesting them so much, I just kept making it higher and higher... in light of the Carpentry thing, I'll lower it probably back down to 5.

2. Something I hadn't considered. Do you find it is a bit too hard or easy to get mana gems? While it's a Koa-only thing, I don't want it to be TOO easy I suppose. There should be a rare chance of the turnip extraction yielding a gold turnip seed. Which, I hadn't considered, will not yield a seed when it is extracted. Something else I may consider, although Bright Mana Gems are better then normal, of course.

3. I thought of giving them value, but I may only do this for normal and above. As dull is produced for free, albeit rarely, I worried that may be abusable. I'll think about it though, because I guess I have to consider that fortress wealth will not be influenced by a huge stockpile of mana gems.

4. Yeah, books were originally going to be a trade good but the newer releases of DF removed the VALUE token, so I can't modify it to make them valuable. The bookcase idea was pitched to me by a friend, so I'll look into that at least. Statues are, after all, not shaped like Koakuma.

Tell me how the wood mechanism idea goes. I can add it, although it will, of course, not be good for magma.

Fun random fact! Before I called it mana gems, I was considering having it be grief seeds, hah.

@Darvi:

I see what you did there.

Patchy

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.2 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2012, 05:50:15 pm »

If you want to stick with 20 planks per log, maybe change the required skill to woodcutting, afterall you are cutting the logs into planks and a legendary woodcutter isn't nearly as unbalancing as a legendary carpenter in 1 season. Or you can make the sawmill harder to build overall. Maybe make it require a few mechanisms, a block, a serrated disc or 2. If it was possible I'd also make it require power to operate. Though it may all be a moot point once the next df release hits with the upgraded trees.

As for dull mana gems, I had an altar going on repeat for the dull ones for a season and got maybe 7 dull gems total, which I think was mostly just bad luck that I didn't get a few more. But it's probably set at a good return considering the no requirements for it. You could say require a book to be used as a reagent, with a 90% return rate on it and then up the success rate for aquiring the gem a little. That is 1 possibility there I suppose.

Normal turnips I just had a herbalist clear a large patch of the surface of plants and had plenty of turnips. Needless to say I had far more normal gems than I did dulls. And had I kept playing the fort out, I would've dug a large room in the soil and replaced the natural roof with a constructed roof, to make a safe turnip and tree harvesting area. Again possibly using a book in the reaction could generate more use for books.

Gold turnips... I wasn't lucky enough to get my hands on one of those or a seed from the reactions. So they are definately rarish which is fine.

In a magic library I can definately see some crystalized mana being used as decorations, they don't have to be crazy valuable, but some value is nice. Maybe the dulls are worth the same as ornamental gems (10 value). Normal mana gems can be in the lower semi-precious range, while the bright ones can be in the higher semi-precious range. And semi precious ranges from 11 to 30 in value.

The wood mechanism works, already genned a test world for it and did it. Same trade-offs and considerations as building anything out of wood vs stone vs metal etc. Just tossed it up there as an idea, take it if you like it, if not... no big deal. I won't lose any sleep over it. xP
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 05:53:53 pm by Patchy »
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krisslanza

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.2 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2012, 05:59:50 pm »

If you want to stick with 20 planks per log, maybe change the required skill to woodcutting, afterall you are cutting the logs into planks and a legendary woodcutter isn't nearly as unbalancing as a legendary carpenter in 1 season. Or you can make the sawmill harder to build overall. Maybe make it require a few mechanisms, a block, a serrated disc or 2. If it was possible I'd also make it require power to operate. Though it may all be a moot point once the next df release hits with the upgraded trees.

As for dull mana gems, I had an altar going on repeat for the dull ones for a season and got maybe 7 dull gems total, which I think was mostly just bad luck that I didn't get a few more. But it's probably set at a good return considering the no requirements for it. You could say require a book to be used as a reagent, with a 90% return rate on it and then up the success rate for aquiring the gem a little. That is 1 possibility there I suppose.

Normal turnips I just had a herbalist clear a large patch of the surface of plants and had plenty of turnips. Needless to say I had far more normal gems than I did dulls. And had I kept playing the fort out, I would've dug a large room in the soil and replaced the natural roof with a constructed roof, to make a safe turnip and tree harvesting area. Again possibly using a book in the reaction could generate more use for books.

Gold turnips... I wasn't lucky enough to get my hands on one of those or a seed from the reactions. So they are definately rarish which is fine.

In a magic library I can definately see some crystalized mana being used as decorations, they don't have to be crazy valuable, but some value is nice. Maybe the dulls are worth the same as ornamental gems (10 value). Normal mana gems can be in the lower semi-precious range, while the bright ones can be in the higher semi-precious range. And semi precious ranges from 11 to 30 in value.

The wood mechanism works, already genned a test world for it and did it. Same trade-offs and considerations as building anything out of wood vs stone vs metal etc. Just tossed it up there as an idea, take it if you like it, if not... no big deal. I won't lose any sleep over it. xP

I didn't think of that. I'm a bit wary of making it too hard to build, as its mainly to help make an aboveground town look "nicer". It may get removed if a future release of DF changes the way wood works though, as again it exists simply because I thought a single tree equals a floor tile is a bit insane.

I think the change of them is like, 10% or something? I did make it pretty low. I think I just tend to be overly worried about game breaking things. I did at a point consider having the progression be more like: Mana Fragment > Mana Crystal > Mana Orb > Mana Star or something.

Something else I hadn't taken into consideration. I should probably increase the Turnips needed to get normal mana gems. Given their growth, what would you think is a good number?

Gold turnips is a 5% chance of the seed, I think. If the reaction is working properly anyway, which it may not.

Hmmmm, I think I'll do that. The feedback is helpful, keep it up!

Patchy

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.2 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2012, 07:28:15 pm »

Well it does help with the "nicer" aspect of an above ground town. Most times when making a fort, my first priority is functional vs nice. The goblins don't take very long to get to you unless you fight to keep your wealth level suppressed. And it is hard keeping it low enough to keep the gobbos away for very long, especially if you are going for nice stuff.

Also nothing wrong with breaking things, thats what playtesting is for. You get something working and then you refine it.

As for the turnips per reaction, it depends on if you want to try and make them drop seeds when used or not. If they drop their seeds you can easily double the requirement, if they don't drop seeds like they do now, I think its fine. Keep in mind with no seed drops, you have to go outside to harvest more wild turnips, you will not be growing them with 0 seeds.
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krisslanza

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.2 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2012, 11:12:13 pm »

Well it does help with the "nicer" aspect of an above ground town. Most times when making a fort, my first priority is functional vs nice. The goblins don't take very long to get to you unless you fight to keep your wealth level suppressed. And it is hard keeping it low enough to keep the gobbos away for very long, especially if you are going for nice stuff.

Also nothing wrong with breaking things, thats what playtesting is for. You get something working and then you refine it.

As for the turnips per reaction, it depends on if you want to try and make them drop seeds when used or not. If they drop their seeds you can easily double the requirement, if they don't drop seeds like they do now, I think its fine. Keep in mind with no seed drops, you have to go outside to harvest more wild turnips, you will not be growing them with 0 seeds.

Alright, thanks for the feedback as usual! Probably going to be busy few days at work 'till the weekend hits... I'll see about getting some of the changes in and a new version up by then I think. Unless something unexpected comes up.

krisslanza

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.2 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2012, 07:20:18 pm »

Working on the newest version now. The next update is going to tinker with me adding, well, breasts to all the female humanoids. If it is received negativity, I may just make it optional.

I also heard of a 'concubine' mod or something, and I may look into that but I may keep 'male' Koakumas around just for the sake of gameplay. I've been considering making a change to their description to note they're just "differently charged" Koakuma or something and are functionally female, but are just male because gameplay. I dunno.

Also adding in some weapons and all that. I might finish it by tonight, or early tomorrow. Maybe.

krisslanza

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.3 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2012, 09:23:50 am »

Alright 1.3 is uploaded now. I think next I'll start figuring out what to do with books.

Patchy

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.3 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2012, 10:48:41 am »

Will download the update and give it a shot later. Been working on another fort, and when it goes belly up, I'll roll up a new Koa world.

Changelog:
v1.3
- Added in Winged Spears, Half-Pikes, and Long Bows for Koakuma civ
- Trolls and Ogres given a petvalue
- Tea Mushrooms. Because why not?!
- Mana reactions now use Strand Extraction instead of Concentration
- Sawmill uses Woodcutting instead of Carpentry, and only yields 10 planks instead of 20.
- Koakuma stats have been tweaked
- All female humanoids have breasts (may be removed)

Well lets see, just from looking at the change log.

-New weapons to try, including an improved spear(maybe). A lot of my dwarven militias are armed with short swords or axes(depends on what the smiths like and immigrant skills), spears, and the humble crossbow.

-Good, the 1 point trolls on embark were a wee bit imbalanced before. xP

-Oh, a new subterranean tea crop? Or could be above ground shrooms I s'pose. And I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the rl world there was a shroom tea or something.

-Mana reactions use strand extracting now? I thought concentration was actually a good pick for it. The Koa is crystalizing some of her mana by concentrating really hard. Guess you wanted a labor you could toggle on/off for it. Though I worked around that in my test fort by setting which koas were allowed to use the buildings.

-10 planks still feels a bit high, but then again it'd probably see more use by people building aboveground which needs extremely large amounts of building material anyways. And the subterranean folks are going to be tripping stones blocks, and not care about the planks when they can engrave their walls and floors as well.

-A bit ambiguous here, but no biggie. Will figure out which stats were tweaked soon enough.

-I doubt you'd receive much negative attention if any at all. Look at Genesis afterall, it has them, and it is a very popular and fun mod. And you'll really only see them, when they inevitably get lopped off in combat anyways.
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krisslanza

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.3 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2012, 10:57:05 am »

Will download the update and give it a shot later. Been working on another fort, and when it goes belly up, I'll roll up a new Koa world.

Changelog:
v1.3
- Added in Winged Spears, Half-Pikes, and Long Bows for Koakuma civ
- Trolls and Ogres given a petvalue
- Tea Mushrooms. Because why not?!
- Mana reactions now use Strand Extraction instead of Concentration
- Sawmill uses Woodcutting instead of Carpentry, and only yields 10 planks instead of 20.
- Koakuma stats have been tweaked
- All female humanoids have breasts (may be removed)

Well lets see, just from looking at the change log.

Quote
-New weapons to try, including an improved spear(maybe). A lot of my dwarven militias are armed with short swords or axes(depends on what the smiths like and immigrant skills), spears, and the humble crossbow.
Sort of yes. I kind of made two spears, one is more stabby/thrusty, and the other is a bit more balanced. I wanted to give each weaponskill a bit more flavor. The longbow is pretty strong I think, and I did some testing with it but didn't feel like it was significantly stronger then a normal bow. I'm going to work on some crossbows for next release.

Quote
-Good, the 1 point trolls on embark were a wee bit imbalanced before. xP
Just a bit. Lemme know if they cost too much though. I just kind of compared them to normal larger animals, but kept in mind you can't butcher them.

Quote
-Oh, a new subterranean tea crop? Or could be above ground shrooms I s'pose. And I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the rl world there was a shroom tea or something.
Yup underground. I doubt it, but I figured why not? This is Dwarf Fortress! It doesn't have to make SENSE!

Quote
-Mana reactions use strand extracting now? I thought concentration was actually a good pick for it. The Koa is crystalizing some of her mana by concentrating really hard. Guess you wanted a labor you could toggle on/off for it. Though I worked around that in my test fort by setting which koas were allowed to use the buildings.
Yeah, that was the main reason. Concentration made sense, but it requires you to have use a manager really. I felt Extraction fit a bit too, and it's a otherwise useless labor for Koas anyway (they can't use adamantine).

Quote
-10 planks still feels a bit high, but then again it'd probably see more use by people building aboveground which needs extremely large amounts of building material anyways. And the subterranean folks are going to be tripping stones blocks, and not care about the planks when they can engrave their walls and floors as well.
To put it in perspective, think about a 5x5 structure. That's 25 floor tiles. Think about a 10x10... aboveground is very materials intensive (unless you just don't make floors).

Quote
-A bit ambiguous here, but no biggie. Will figure out which stats were tweaked soon enough.
Basically I just tweaked regeneration and disease resistance to higher values, and gave Koas a high memory for mental.

Quote
-I doubt you'd receive much negative attention if any at all. Look at Genesis afterall, it has them, and it is a very popular and fun mod. And you'll really only see them, when they inevitably get lopped off in combat anyways.

That's true. Unless I used the Lust Demon mod approach and made breasts a thing in their description, ahahaha :P

EDIT:
I forgot to take out my saves. Oops.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 01:58:27 pm by krisslanza »
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Patchy

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.3 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2012, 08:43:38 pm »

Ok, saved up the fort for now, and went to look at the update. Two things popped up real fast in the errorlog, 1 of which is an easy fix, and the other I don't know how to fix yet.

You used wrong the wrong skill token for the plank reaction. Change CUTWOOD to WOODCUTTING to fix it.

The errorlog is spitting out stuff about the worlds female population having no thickness in their breasts. So basically everyone is flat.... which come to think of it isn't too far from the truth about Touhou.

Also noticed a couple of syntax errors in the koa plant file. You're missing some colons here and there. Really minor problems there, even the errorlog didn't catch them. Still checking through some of the other files though. Will let you know if/when I find anything else.
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krisslanza

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.3 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2012, 09:30:13 pm »

Ok, saved up the fort for now, and went to look at the update. Two things popped up real fast in the errorlog, 1 of which is an easy fix, and the other I don't know how to fix yet.

You used wrong the wrong skill token for the plank reaction. Change CUTWOOD to WOODCUTTING to fix it.

The errorlog is spitting out stuff about the worlds female population having no thickness in their breasts. So basically everyone is flat.... which come to think of it isn't too far from the truth about Touhou.

Also noticed a couple of syntax errors in the koa plant file. You're missing some colons here and there. Really minor problems there, even the errorlog didn't catch them. Still checking through some of the other files though. Will let you know if/when I find anything else.

Yeah I fixed the plank thing. I mistakeningly was using the Labor tokens as reference, when reactions use Skill tokens instead.

I'm not sure what to do about the breasts thing though. I was using reference from mods that use them, and I couldn't see anything that seemed to define tissues.

Thanks for checking for me! This is what happens when I code stuff up, assume it works, and release it...

Patchy

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.3 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2012, 09:50:29 pm »

You are using LD as your base for the breasts addition right? Well, I just downloaded it and will see if I can't piece together what went wrong with your attempt to add them in. But as I'm only a dabbler with body modding and the like, it'll probably be awhile before I figure it out. You may consider sending a pm to the creator of it and see if he can give you a hand with it as well.

Edit: Ok, think I've got it figured out now. Wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I even tested it in the arena mode and managed to aim a few attacks at them. And the error log comes out clean when I load your mod now. And so, building off what you've already done for it.

Add the below to the bottom of b_detail_plan_default.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You already added the stuff in the body default file. So now we move on to the bits you still need for the creature file. Add the 2 lines I marked for you, and also add the appropriate lines for the other races you wanted to do.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Anyways, hope that helps.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 12:34:14 am by Patchy »
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krisslanza

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.3 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2012, 12:33:19 am »

You are using LD as your base for the breasts addition right? Well, I just downloaded it and will see if I can't piece together what went wrong with your attempt to add them in. But as I'm only a dabbler with body modding and the like, it'll probably be awhile before I figure it out. You may consider sending a pm to the creator of it and see if he can give you a hand with it as well.

I used it and Masterwork and Genesis, probably, as reference. I'll ask around and see.
I'm Dabbling in pretty much all this myself too :P

Patchy

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.3 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2012, 12:37:26 am »

Ninja'd again while posting my edit. Well anyways, figured it out and tested.
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krisslanza

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Re: Voile Fortress - v1.3 - Koas are Striking the Earth
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2012, 12:40:14 am »

Ninja'd again while posting my edit. Well anyways, figured it out and tested.

I have an uncanny ability to post while you do those edits, don't I? Thanks for the help! I was off watching Avengers (which, while a great movie, does not have any ideas that can influence Voile Fortress, thankfully).
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