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[Patchy]

I was planning on doing a quick test later, but I'm in the middle of playing a fort at the moment. Will probably save it up in a little while and do the testing.

[krisslanza]

I was planning on doing a quick test later, but I'm in the middle of playing a fort at the moment. Will probably save it up in a little while and do the testing.

Alright lemme know what you find. I wasn't paying much attention to it myself, as I was happy they just weren't dieing out completely. And I'm not sure if having no capital actually impacts anything gameplay-wise.

[Patchy]

Ok, I added the below biome tags to the Koa entity.
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:3]

And I get an overwhelming success on the very first world I gen. And cause pics can sometimes speak louder than words, pics provided below in the spoiler tag.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Will probably have to gen a few more to get a larger sample size, and make sure that this wasn't a fluke. But, considering what I was seeing in previous worldgens before the addition of the tags, I think the problem is actually fixed.

[krisslanza]

Looks like it. I guess I didn't think of the expansion problems... I'll go ahead and do that tweak when I get home.

[krisslanza]

V1.5 is live! I'm probably going to spend the next few updates tweaking Suika civilization and such, before working on adding in Crow and/or Wolf Tengu. I'm also considering adding in some more 'hostile' civs, so there's more chances for warring civs.

[krisslanza]

So I'm probably gonna get lynched for doing this, but making a new topic to do this seemed pointless...

Basically, I want to say this mod isn't officially dead - I had simply burnt out on DF. Well, until the new version is out... now I'm just waiting for bugfixes to happen so I don't have to worry about updating/uploading the mod every week or something.

However, I've struggled to give the Koakuma civ something... unique enough to really make them feel, well, unique? I know some ideas have been pitched, but... while I like the mana idea, that's more Patchouli's thing. In canon, all we know of Koakuma is she's a little devil, really.

While I'm not against trying to apply Patchouli's magic to the civ (So Fire, Water, Metal, Wood, and Earth? I think. Sun and Moon maybe), the problem with it mainly is while ways to make some of the magics - such as metal or wood - are obvious. Ones like water or fire? A bit more complex. While it might be obvious to say, it involves a water tile or a magma tile, I don't think its quite as simple in actual execution.

I'm just kind of stumped on something to make the civ feel unique, and by extension, the mod. I mean, fanon-wise, Koakuma is seen as a succubi, but then we'd basically just have another Foocubi mod, I think.

Another issue I ran into while making this was, well, wanting to throw in a lot of other references. I mean, I kept thinking of adding in a Glas Ghaibhleann megabeast from Mabinogi/Vindictus - complete with adamantine bones - because I like the series. But it's not fitting to Touhou, or Koakuma. Guess I'm curious if such things really bug people as a possibility. Sticking within the realm of Touhou won't help with adding new materials or such, but it should provide enough new creatures or civs.

Anyway, this is just a like. Reviving and brainstorming kind of post. Its what you type up when you're bored and have access to the internet.

[cyberTripping]

Inabas or bust


That's all I have to say really

[krisslanza]

Inabas or bust


That's all I have to say really

Rabbits huh? I'd have to make icons for them, since I can't just borrow the Suika one, but I could add them in as a civ... I wonder what they'd do... Kobold-like? Thieves? Hmmm...

[Uristides]

Thanks for the self necro, this is so great. Koa is my favourite character (despite having absolutely no canon and only appearing in one game, yeah).

I will give it a spin when I have more time, we absolutely need more(mantained) Touhou mods.

[krisslanza]

I had a crazy thought at work yesterday.

And that was to kind of expand the scope of the mod a bit and make it less "Koakuma" only and more... Touhou in general? I thought of how castes work, and how castes can have their own icons, which means you could in theory say... make an overall "Touhou" race, and then have castes of everyone.

Of course, this sounds like a nightmare given I think the roster of Touhou characters now is like 50+ or something and it's going to make an obscene number of castes in one race. But then the idea of having a fortress with Koakumas, Patchoulis, Reimus, Yukaris, etc. running around sounded amazing...

Would probably rename the mod then too. But I'm not sure. It sounds nice in my head, but I'm not sure how well it'd actually work in execution.

And thank you Uristides! Koakuma is one of my favorite Touhou characters as well. 'Tis why I made the mod, actually, even though it doesn't really make sense unlike the Suika mod, which at least makes sense given Suika can split herself up.

[Patchy]

Well nice to see this going again. Should've shot me a PM letting me know you were opening up discussion on this again.

Anyways, as you noted Koa has very little official material and that does make it sort of hard to give her a unique ability. And some diehards will probably reject most anything due to lack of canon, but you shouldn't let that get to you. Fanon wasn't much more informative about her, but that hasn't stopped people from making stuff up about lesser known chars before. The lack of info on her can mean you get to take some artistic license and make up whatever you want for her. So have some fun with it. If you want to add some mabinogi and celtic myth into it, I'd say go for it. Afterall, touhou has been mixed with just about everything else.

I think I helped pitch some of the mana crystal ideas in a couple of our past pm's a couple years ago, but you can just do somethin with the books. Koa can be inferred to be a bit of a librarian since she helps Patchy manage the library. Maybe the Koa's make various spellbooks that they can use as catalysts for vaious unique reactions.

As for making a touhou fortress with castes of all the 100+ chars, I'd say you might not want to go down that path. Besides the 100's of sprites you'd have to do, the castes if I recall are still tied to using one set of sprites, so unless you want everyone else running around looking like Koas or whatever sprite you use as the main fortress race. I think NWKohaku had a "Stonehall Alliance" mod somewhere in the planning phase but he ran into problems with how to portray wildly different castes he was going to use.

I'll finish this post with this. Do what you like, it's your mod and noone else has to play it if they don't like it. I'll be watching again now.

[krisslanza]

Well nice to see this going again. Should've shot me a PM letting me know you were opening up discussion on this again.

Anyways, as you noted Koa has very little official material and that does make it sort of hard to give her a unique ability. And some diehards will probably reject most anything due to lack of canon, but you shouldn't let that get to you. Fanon wasn't much more informative about her, but that hasn't stopped people from making stuff up about lesser known chars before. The lack of info on her can mean you get to take some artistic license and make up whatever you want for her. So have some fun with it. If you want to add some mabinogi and celtic myth into it, I'd say go for it. Afterall, touhou has been mixed with just about everything else.

I think I helped pitch some of the mana crystal ideas in a couple of our past pm's a couple years ago, but you can just do somethin with the books. Koa can be inferred to be a bit of a librarian since she helps Patchy manage the library. Maybe the Koa's make various spellbooks that they can use as catalysts for vaious unique reactions.

As for making a touhou fortress with castes of all the 100+ chars, I'd say you might not want to go down that path. Besides the 100's of sprites you'd have to do, the castes if I recall are still tied to using one set of sprites, so unless you want everyone else running around looking like Koas or whatever sprite you use as the main fortress race. I think NWKohaku had a "Stonehall Alliance" mod somewhere in the planning phase but he ran into problems with how to portray wildly different castes he was going to use.

I'll finish this post with this. Do what you like, it's your mod and noone else has to play it if they don't like it. I'll be watching again now.

It is largely conceptually going right now anyway. Toady is still cranking out bugfixes so that's a thing. I need to tinker with the newest vanilla version and see all the changes.

About the only popular fanon I know of for Koakuma is a librarian and/or succubus. I guess she's technically supposed to be a sort of imp according to ZUN, but that was forever ago... and she only showed up (outside EOSD) in a canon manga like... once. And was staffing a food stall or something in the Mansion. So I guess she is fairly flexible.

And yeah you did pitch the mana crystal idea. I had put a lot of thought into it, but never got to trying any of it out. The 'issue' as it were, was that elemental magics is more Patchouli's thing then Koakuma's. Books might be rather appropriate though. I'd probably settle for just getting something barebones for now and flesh it out later perhaps...

Is that so? Darn, that's a shame, I was hoping we could mix sprites. I know a friend said maybe I could just make the sprite used depend on the job, but that'd be tacky. I guess its for the best - while it sounds amazing, I'd need base icons and... it'd be a lot of work. Still, it'd be a pretty fun thing if it was possible. Maybe one day Toady, one day!

[krisslanza]

So I've had a few thoughts.

Given at least in canon we know for sure Koakuma works (or at least lives) in the Voile, I will likely focus on using books as something special. To perhaps make them different from DF's view of "books", I might make them more in line with things like manuscripts, tomes, or grimoires or such.

I had the thought of perhaps requiring such things to make more 'advanced' workshops, or perhaps goods, but I'm not sure how good that is in practice. I'd like some way to make Koakumas 'require' books to read or see - but I don't see any real feasible way to do this, as we can't make a [BOOK_DEPENDENT] token or something.

I might play up the succubi angle at this point, I'm not sure. I know Masterwork has an actual succubi mod now, but... that seems to be a very strong fanon element of Koakuma.

[Patchy]

The different types of books could be fluff or even be used for different reactions. I can see them being like the european christian monks making their illuminated manuscripts of the bible and such. So you could make the book making industry fairly detailed and labor intensive. Can use leather to make book covers, some plants can probably be made into paper, inks, and glue to bind everything together. And then finally someone to come and write the spells and such in the book with the ink and maybe a quill pen. Research a bit into how books were made in the past and implement it as best you can here. You can probably do a lot to make this a labor intensive industry and then tie their best reactions and stuff to needing a book that gets consumed in the reaction.

I think if you make books a central theme to their custom reactions and such, they'll be book dependant enough. Maybe limit them to bronze as their best metal, and gate the special metals you made for them behind book required reactions.

I haven't really played the succubus mods, the stand-alones or the one thats part of masterwork. So, I don't know how they go about the succubus angle there. So, can't comment much on those.

[krisslanza]

The different types of books could be fluff or even be used for different reactions. I can see them being like the european christian monks making their illuminated manuscripts of the bible and such. So you could make the book making industry fairly detailed and labor intensive. Can use leather to make book covers, some plants can probably be made into paper, inks, and glue to bind everything together. And then finally someone to come and write the spells and such in the book with the ink and maybe a quill pen. Research a bit into how books were made in the past and implement it as best you can here. You can probably do a lot to make this a labor intensive industry and then tie their best reactions and stuff to needing a book that gets consumed in the reaction.

I think if you make books a central theme to their custom reactions and such, they'll be book dependant enough. Maybe limit them to bronze as their best metal, and gate the special metals you made for them behind book required reactions.

I haven't really played the succubus mods, the stand-alones or the one thats part of masterwork. So, I don't know how they go about the succubus angle there. So, can't comment much on those.

Not a bad idea perhaps... maybe they need 'manuals' of sorts to work better metals. Hmmm...

Far as I recall, the Masterwork mod makes them centered around trapping souls or something? I guess by playing up the succubi angle, I'm not too sure what that entails yet either ahahaha.