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[Kilroy the Grand]

I have a question for you Eagle_eye...

Have you or any of the other vegans you hang out with(if any) ever call an omnivore a Bloodmouth?  Or refer to themus as Bloodmouths in conversation?

I have to thank you for telling me about "bloodmouths" if you hadn't I wouldn't have learned some vegans think artificial insemination is equivalent to raping people

[lordcooper]

There is no way in hell I'm reading this entire thread...

Lifelong (well, since around the age of three) vegetarian here, who finds the unnecessary slaughter of animals utterly horrendous.  My advice is to be completely honest with your parents.  Respect their beliefs and refrain from eating animal produce at home, but be fully upfront about the fact that you're only complying out of a sense of respect, and will be eating meat when out and about.

Asking someone to behave a certain way while under your roof is completely reasonable, demanding that they conform to your beliefs/practices at all times is bloody ridiculous.

[Eagle_eye]

So killing animals for survival is still the wrong thing to do? Really? Well I'm sure you're a janist Eagle_eye, I bet you even keep a little broom around with you to sweep insects out of your path, I'm sure you've never owned a pedigree dog because it supports puppy mills. Hell I bet you even donate your entire paycheck to your local SPCA, living on the streets eating dandelion leaves like a hobo.

Please enlighten me on how to be such a perfect person as you.

First of all, stop being sarcastic. That helps a ton. No, I'm not a jainist, I've never seen anything to demonstrate insects have any sort of consciousness. The only dogs I've owned have been strays or unwanted pups acquired from someone who has nothing to do with dog breeding. I don't have any paycheck to donate, but when I do, the majority of what I don't need for survival will be going to charities.

[G-Flex]

Not to mention that, as I've mentioned before, the inability to completely eliminate harm does not mean that it's illegitimate to try to minimize harm.

[GoombaGeek]

It took me a while to work out my opinion on this, because it's very tempting to resort to posting quotes and arguing about arguing (the worst thing that can happen to any thread - at least being locked is a dignified way to go).

So, I support eating meat because a) I hate green vegetables so going vegan would be tons of "oh boy, peppers stuffed with leaves!" and b) we have the privilege to do so. There *probably* weren't very many vegans 200 years ago because at that point, survival was more important than whining about how ethical your food is, and we didn't have the choice. Now civilization has reached a little plateau where we have the freedom to complain about how terrible factory farming is and never eat anything from one of the five dwarven food groups (Meat, Fish, Plant, Drink, Other) again. But what about improperly done plant farming, eh? If you let a sufficiently large pasture grow whatever and keep animals in it, then you won't have too many issues (overcrowding's where the problems happen). But the same thing is true with plants. If you grow too much corn in a tiny little field, then you have to truck in fertilizer and manually work out the nutrients in the soil because it just doesn't work out. And pesticides and tons of crap we put on our food crops (and more!) ends up in waterways, and you've got a pollution problem just like the pollution problem from overcrowded pastures. With plants. So then you move to organic, but then you're paying tons of money (you need someone tending those almost all the time - we used to have a farm share where you pay a few hundred dollars and help out in the fields for one day, and in return you get vegetables all summer) to cover the holes in your diet that you've created. So it's not just "I'd eat a cow if it meant not dying", it's "I'm not eating a cow right now and boy, am I paying for it!". You have to pay a lot of money, or you get to contribute to algal blooms, dying fish and mud flats that won't grow anything.

Where I live, you can get pretty good beef for cheap, and it's from well-raised cattle, so I go for it. Maybe you won't, if your area is different (transportation costs and pollution!). Maybe you will, when saving money becomes more important than a couple of your ethical standards. It's all different and I'm doing pretty well.

And I didn't even have to get philosophical!

[Hanslanda]

Ah, vegan/vegetarianism. Read the first (50 posts per page) page and the last one.

Quite a heated debate, it seems. I like eating meat, and it doesn't bother me that animals die to feed me, because I am human. That's how we roll. We have the teeth of an omnivore, and frankly, creatures die every day and go unmourned. I'm not going to take the energy to be concerned with animals being (for the most part) humanely slaughtered when I've got more important things to worry about in my day.

Just my two cents. Hope it doesn't offend anyone.

[Maur]

Iron - Spinach, leaf vegetables, watercress, tofu, chickpeas and black-eyed peas (not the band).

Spinach is a myth (a rather old mistake that became common wisdom).

Also, there are fungus burgers that taste exactly like processed chicken.

How dwarfy!

[Neonivek]

Ah, vegan/vegetarianism. Read the first (50 posts per page) page and the last one.

Quite a heated debate, it seems. I like eating meat, and it doesn't bother me that animals die to feed me, because I am human. That's how we roll. We have the teeth of an omnivore, and frankly, creatures die every day and go unmourned. I'm not going to take the energy to be concerned with animals being (for the most part) humanely slaughtered when I've got more important things to worry about in my day.

Just my two cents. Hope it doesn't offend anyone.

I actually watched a show where one of the characters was too soft hearted to cook with any meat because he cared too much about the animals.

However oddly enough... it actually ended with him still cooking with meat but performing "last rights" for them.

[Zangi]

Well... giving respects to the dead for feeding your stomach ain't too shabby.

[lordcooper]

I live with two other veggie adults and we generally manage to feed ourselves (mainly with organic / free range food) for under £20 a week each, plus 3 x £15 annual leases on allotments.  Food can be pretty damn cheap once you cut out the processed crap, especially if you keep hens, bees or brew your own alcohol to trade.

Don't get me wrong, I'd slaughter the fuck out of an animal if I was stuck on a desert island and couldn't survive any other way.  I'd also kill a human in that situation and wouldn't find this any more ethically troubling.  At present nothing needs to die for me to have a balanced diet, so nothing does

[Flare]

Don't get me wrong, I'd slaughter the fuck out of an animal if I was stuck on a desert island and couldn't survive any other way.  I'd also kill a human in that situation and wouldn't find this any more ethically troubling.  At present nothing needs to die for me to have a balanced diet, so nothing does

What is the measure of the value of living things for you, and what system are you using to resolve conflicts within the list of values?

[lordcooper]

Could you rephrase the question please?

[Flare]

Assuming you don't treat all living tings equally, how do you judge whether you should or shouldn't do something to a living thing?

[Azthor]

Ah, vegan/vegetarianism. Read the first (50 posts per page) page and the last one.

Quite a heated debate, it seems. I like eating meat, and it doesn't bother me that animals die to feed me, because I am human. That's how we roll. We have the teeth of an omnivore, and frankly, creatures die every day and go unmourned. I'm not going to take the energy to be concerned with animals being (for the most part) humanely slaughtered when I've got more important things to worry about in my day.

Just my two cents. Hope it doesn't offend anyone.

In case it isn't clear by now, I am with you there; I will even admit to consuming foie gras every so often, the nightmare of just about every animal rights activist.

[Zangi]

So much PETA propaganda around the Foie Gras...  so much...  Their go-to 'abuse' pictures are years old and have no relation with the current producers...