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Author Topic: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance  (Read 49899 times)

Maklak

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2013, 03:58:17 am »

That's odd, in the Fallout Equestria mod there are reactions to produce ammunition, they work correctly and accept any weapons grade metal.

[REACTION:MANUFACTURE_AMMO_SMALL_PRISM]
   [NAME:manufacture small caliber ammunition (60) (prism)]
   [BUILDING:FORGE_PRISM_MWT:CUSTOM_S]
   [REAGENT:B:150:BAR:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:WEAPON_METAL]
   [REAGENT:C:150:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:BRASS]
   [REAGENT:gunpowder:150:POWDER_MISC:NONE:INORGANIC:GUNPOWDER]
   [REAGENT:E:1:BOX:NONE:NONE:NONE]
      [CONTAINS:gunpowder]
      [PRESERVE_REAGENT]
      [DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
   [PRODUCT:100:30:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET_SMALL:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:B:NONE]
   [PRODUCT:100:30:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BULLET_SMALL:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:B:NONE]
   [SKILL:METALCRAFT]

What about

[REAGENT:metal:150:BAR:NONE:NONE:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:WEAPON_METAL]
[DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT]
// Product: bolts, get material from reagent metal.
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Pirate Bob

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2013, 11:27:42 pm »

WOO! I finally got my bone reactions finished, the reageant line is ridiculously long and awkward, BUT IT WORKS!

So here it is, my bolt mods.    ...Oh, by the way, turns out the ADJECTIVE token won't work on ammo, dang it, so I had to just add the descriptor to the name proper.

Ammo raws, includes both the tips used solely for the reactions, and the actually ammo itself.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Solid bolts are on top, so use it to replace normal bolts, following them are the actually ammos, then the tips for reactions.

Here are the huge amount of reactions to create all of them, for flare and bodkin, for all ammo-grade metals, as well as the finished bolts themselves.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At the bottom you should see, BONUS! Obsidian flared tips, no fuel required, but only makes 1 stack of 25, but you'll probably be obsidian-farming, anyway.

And here is that Fletcher's shop to make all that.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also includes a MAGMA Fletcher's shop!

And to make adding all this to the dwarf entity file a little easier,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just add to the dwarves, and there you have it.

Forging the arrowheads needs metalcrafting, as does making the fletcher's shops themselves, actually connecting the arrowheads to the wood or bone is weaponsmithing, and making stone flare tips is, of course, stonecrafting.

Please give me your feedback on this, I worked quite a bit on this, and haven't been able to do much in the way of actual combat testing, If I could get one of those amazing charts like the one Pirate Bob made, that would be great so I could tweak them to perfection.

I should eventually be able to test this (remind me if it doesn't happen).  I'm kind of behind with my testing, as other stuff keeps distracting me.  If you want to do your own testing, I'd be happy to guide you through that as well. 

What crossbow parameters did you envision using with these?  Or do you want testing to figure out what would be good there?  If you use the standard DF Force=Velocity=1000, then a slightly differently shaped railgun pellet is still going to go right through a dwarf...

Has anyone remembered to test this stuff? ??? It looks like mastahcheese put a lot of work into these reactions, workshops, and ammo and it'd be a shame to see it forgotten. If they are reasonably balanced, I'd be tempted to use them...

Sorry, I forgot to do this.  It takes a long time to run the testing, and I won't be able to do it in the near future as I am too busy with work.  If someone else wants to run the tests, I would be happy to provide scripts and/or advice.

However, I can estimate what will happen using the formulas I derived from my testing (see the Material Science page of the wiki).  I find that adamantine breastplates and helms (layer thickness=20) will block flared bolts quite well, steel plates/helms and other (thinner) addy armor might block some bolts a little (with the lighter bolts more likely to be blocked).  Bodkin bolts will not be blocked at all (except addy vs. addy, which happens in vanilla), and no armors lower than steel will provide any protection whatsoever.  This might not actually be too bad for dwarf mode, as I think it might allow some protection with steel armor, which you can get relatively easily.  I don't think this would make any significant difference for adventure mode unless you go to a retired fort to get armor.

I also created a mod of bolts which I tried to balance a based on my testing results.  I created custom materials for bolts which all have mass=600 (average for wood).  I then tweaked SHOOT_MAXVEL to get steel plate armor to block projectiles ~90% of the time and iron ~30% of the time.  I feel that this is very nice for adventure mode (and as a bonus makes bolts less crazily heavy).  It may make steel armor too good for dwarf mode, and if you think so you could dial up SHOOT_MAXVEL a bit to compensate (I think there are some instructions about how to do this included with the mod).  There is also the issue that the custom materials behave oddly in Dwarf mode.  I created reactions to use bars of normal metal and create bolts made of the corresponding light metal, but then when you melt these down you get the light metal.  It is also not possible to put custom reactions in the forge, so bolts have to be made elsewhere (I think I chose the smelter?), but reactions still show up as possible using the custom metals in the forge.  Anyway, if anyone wants to try it I'd be happy to help if you have questions/issues.

random_odd_guy

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2013, 07:10:21 pm »

THANK YOU! Dear Armok those crossbows were overpowered.
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pisskop

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2013, 07:52:38 pm »

You bumped the thread.  I demand an update! Funny how the bolt v. armour thread also got a new post today too.
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mastahcheese

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2013, 11:03:10 pm »

THANK YOU! Dear Armok those crossbows were overpowered.
I know, right?
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Pirate Bob

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2013, 02:38:01 pm »

You bumped the thread.  I demand an update! Funny how the bolt v. armour thread also got a new post today too.
I am going to try to work on testing how body part size figures into the bolt vs. armor calculations.  I am pretty sure that it matters, as helms of the same material and thickness are more effective than breastplates, but I don't quite know how it works.  I believe this is the last major piece to the puzzle, but figuring it out may be difficult.

On that note, I would like to try to create creatures that are, for example, just a dwarf's head.  Ideally, I'd like to have no facial features etc, just a plain sphere of flesh, but with skin, fat, muscle, and bone in the same sizes and proportions that a dwarf (or other humanoid) would have.  Then the idea would be to vary the size of this target to see how size changes the results.  I might also try another body part or two (like a torso and maybe a shin) to make sure that they all behave the same way when set to the same size.

Anyhow, I am pretty sure I can figure out how to make these things, but I have limited experience working with the creature templates (and they seem rather complicated), so if someone who knows what they're doing felt like giving me some pointers, it would be much appreciated.

Edit:  Here is my best attempt to make a blob of dwarf flesh.  I basically crossed a sponge with a dwarf.  I don't think I managed to give it any bones, but I'm not sure if that matters - it definitely can be cut and bruised, and I think that might be good enough.
Code: (Arena Blob) [Select]
[CREATURE:ARENA_BLOB]
[DESCRIPTION:A blob of flesh destined to die horribly.]
[NAME:arena blob:arena blobs:arena blobby]
[CASTE_NAME:arena blob:arena blob:arena blobby]
[CREATURE_TILE:1][COLOR:7:0:0]
[CREATURE_SOLDIER_TILE:2]

Many of the following tags are actually caste-level tags (in this case, male and female), but because there are no differences between the castes for these tags in a dwarf, you can add them earlier.  Any caste-level tag that occurs before castes are explicitly declared is saved up and placed on any caste that is declared later, unless the caste is explicitly derived from another caste.

[INTELLIGENT]
[TRANCES]
[BENIGN]
[NOPAIN]
[NOEXERT]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:squishiness]
[BODY:BASIC_1PARTBODY_THOUGHT]
Next we use body detail plans (which have their own raw file) to streamline the addition of some of the common materials, tissues and their relationships with each other.

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RELSIZES]


This controls the bleeding behavior.

[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
[BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]


****I don't think the rest of this matters, but I left it the same as regular dwarves***


These classes are used by syndromes (such as poison) as well as some restricted entity positions.  You can name them whatever you want.

[CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]

Some tags to control the overall infection behavior.

[GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
[GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
[PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]

Attributes for dwarves are still described in terms of the median value below, but the actual game effects are altered according to the raw numbers.  The numbers are different percentile values.  1000 is the human median for all attributes, so dwarven strength, for instance, has a higher median of 1250, although they suffer from their smaller size.

[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]              +
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:150:600:800:900:1000:1100:1500]                 -
[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:TOUGHNESS:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]             +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:ANALYTICAL_ABILITY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]    +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:FOCUS:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500]                ++
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:CREATIVITY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]            +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:PATIENCE:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]              +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:MEMORY:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250]                +
[MENT_ATT_RANGE:SPATIAL_SENSE:700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500]        ++

These tags establish the growth phases of the creature's life.  The format is (BODY_SIZE|<year>|<day>|<average size>).

[BODY_SIZE:0:0:3000]
[BODY_SIZE:1:168:15000]
[BODY_SIZE:12:0:60000]

These body modifiers give individual dwarves different characteristics.  In the case of HEIGHT, BROADNESS and LENGTH, the modifier is also a percentage change to the BODY_SIZE of the individual creature.  The seven numbers afterward give a distribution of ranges.  Each interval has an equal chance of occurring.

[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:100:100:100:100:100:100:100]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
[BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:100:100:100:100:100:100:100]
[APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]

In order to set properties for body parts, first you select them.  In this case, we select all body parts of category EYE, then we add a few modifiers to them.


These are as before.

[MAXAGE:150:170]

Attack definitions are formatted as follows:


Here, GENERAL_BABY_NAME is at the creature level, and BABYNAME is at the caste level.  These names could be gender-specific but aren't right now.

[BABY:1]
[GENERAL_BABY_NAME:dwarven baby:dwarven babies]
[BABYNAME:dwarven baby:dwarven babies]
[CHILD:12]
[GENERAL_CHILD_NAME:dwarven child:dwarven children]
[CHILDNAME:dwarven child:dwarven children]
[EQUIPS]
[CAVE_ADAPT]
[DIURNAL]

This is the new format for making specific unit names for a creature.  Any unit token can be used.  If you want to add a caste-specific profession name, use CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME instead, once the caste has been declared.

[PROFESSION_NAME:CRAFTSMAN:craftsdwarf:craftsdwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:FISHERMAN:fisherdwarf:fisherdwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:HAMMERMAN:hammerdwarf:hammerdwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:SPEARMAN:speardwarf:speardwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:CROSSBOWMAN:marksdwarf:marksdwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:AXEMAN:axedwarf:axedwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:SWORDSMAN:swordsdwarf:swordsdwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:MACEMAN:macedwarf:macedwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:PIKEMAN:pikedwarf:pikedwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:BOWMAN:bowdwarf:bowdwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:MASTER_CROSSBOWMAN:Elite Marksdwarf:Elite Marksdwarves]
[PROFESSION_NAME:MASTER_BOWMAN:Elite Bowdwarf:Elite Bowdwarves]
[SPEECH:dwarf.txt]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[ALCOHOL_DEPENDENT]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:0:55:100]
[PERSONALITY:VULNERABILITY:0:45:100]
[PERSONALITY:STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS:0:55:100]
[MANNERISM_FINGERS:finger:fingers]
[MANNERISM_NOSE:nose]
[MANNERISM_EAR:ear]
[MANNERISM_HEAD:head]
[MANNERISM_EYES:eyes]
[MANNERISM_MOUTH:mouth]
[MANNERISM_HAIR:hair]
[MANNERISM_KNUCKLES:knuckles]
[MANNERISM_LIPS:lips]
[MANNERISM_CHEEK:cheek]
[MANNERISM_NAILS:nails]
[MANNERISM_FEET:feet]
[MANNERISM_ARMS:arms]
[MANNERISM_HANDS:hands]
[MANNERISM_TONGUE:tongue]
[MANNERISM_LEG:leg]
[MANNERISM_LAUGH]
[MANNERISM_SMILE]
[MANNERISM_WALK]
[MANNERISM_SIT]
[MANNERISM_BREATH]
[MANNERISM_POSTURE]
[MANNERISM_STRETCH]
[MANNERISM_EYELIDS]
[SPOUSE_CONVERSION_TARGET]

Now we'll declare the specific castes.

[CASTE:FEMALE]
The gender tag lets it know how breeding works.
[FEMALE]
[MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
To add beards, put square brackets around the following:
BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS
[CASTE:MALE]
[MALE]
[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:FACIAL_HAIR_TISSUE_LAYERS]

This command lets you select all of the castes again.

[SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
[SKILL_RATES:1:8:8:16]
Now we'll select all of the hair tissue layers we can find so that we can add colorations to them.  Even if the castes have different tissue layers, it'll find the layers and establish modifiers for each of the castes properly.

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:HAIR]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHEEK_WHISKERS]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHIN_WHISKERS]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:MOUSTACHE]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:SIDEBURNS]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYEBROW]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYELASH]

A color modifier takes a list of color patterns (every color is associated to a monotone color pattern of its color, so you can also use color tokens) and frequencies.

[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:AMBER:1:AUBURN:1:BLACK:1:BROWN:1:BUFF:1:BURNT_SIENNA:1:BURNT_UMBER:1:CHARCOAL:1:CHESTNUT:1:CHOCOLATE:1:CINNAMON:1:COPPER:1:DARK_BROWN:1:DARK_CHESTNUT:1:DARK_TAN:1:ECRU:1:FLAX:1:GOLD:1:GOLDEN_YELLOW:1:GOLDENROD:1:LIGHT_BROWN:1:MAHOGANY:1:OCHRE:1:PALE_BROWN:1:PALE_CHESTNUT:1:PUMPKIN:1:RAW_UMBER:1:RUSSET:1:SAFFRON:1:SEPIA:1:TAN:1:TAUPE_DARK:1:TAUPE_GRAY:1:TAUPE_MEDIUM:1:TAUPE_PALE:1:TAUPE_SANDY:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:GRAY:1]

This gives the start and finish time in <year>|<days> for the color change to occur

[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:80:0:130:0]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:WHITE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[TLCM_TIMING:ROOT:130:0:150:0]

Now we'll select the eyebrows and eyelashes and give them variable lengths.

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYEBROW]
[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:50:80:90:100:110:120:150]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:eyebrows:PLURAL]
[APP_MOD_DESC_RANGE:55:70:90:110:130:145]
[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:DENSE:50:80:90:100:110:120:150]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:eyebrows:PLURAL]
[APP_MOD_DESC_RANGE:55:70:90:110:130:145]
[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HIGH_POSITION:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:eyebrows:PLURAL]

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:EYELASH]
[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:50:80:90:100:110:120:150]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:eyelashes:PLURAL]
[APP_MOD_DESC_RANGE:55:70:90:110:130:145]

All of the other hair is selected and started at length zero.  It's fine to group them all together like this -- the creature can still accomodate different lengths once hair cutting/styling goes in.  I used one modifier here because the growth rates and starting length are all the same.

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:HAIR]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHEEK_WHISKERS]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHIN_WHISKERS]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:MOUSTACHE]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:SIDEBURNS]
[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]

Here we set the growth rate.  This will change the modifier (LENGTH) by 1 each day up to a maximum of 1000 from the start of the dwarf's life (early beards!) for as long as the dwarf is alive.  The format is (APP_MOD_RATE|<rate>|<scale>|<min>|<max>|<start year>|<start day>|<end year>|<end day>) where the final two tokens can be replaced by NO_END if the growth is to continue indefinitely.

[APP_MOD_RATE:1:DAILY:0:1000:0:0:NO_END]
[APP_MOD_DESC_RANGE:10:25:75:125:200:300]

[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:CURLY:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:GREASY:0:70:90:100:110:130:200]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:DENSE:50:80:90:100:110:120:150]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]
[APP_MOD_DESC_RANGE:55:70:90:110:130:145]

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:HAIR]
[TISSUE_STYLE_UNIT:HAIR:STANDARD_HAIR_SHAPINGS]
[TSU_NOUN:hair:SINGULAR]

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHEEK_WHISKERS]
[PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:CHIN_WHISKERS]
[TISSUE_STYLE_UNIT:BEARD:STANDARD_BEARD_SHAPINGS]
[TSU_NOUN:beard:SINGULAR]

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:MOUSTACHE]
[TISSUE_STYLE_UNIT:MOUSTACHE:STANDARD_MOUSTACHE_SHAPINGS]
[TSU_NOUN:moustache:SINGULAR]

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:HEAD:SIDEBURNS]
[TISSUE_STYLE_UNIT:SIDEBURNS:STANDARD_SIDEBURNS_SHAPINGS]
[TSU_NOUN:sideburns:PLURAL]

Here we handle nail length.

*** need a new style to keep these short and need to make the entity def say to keep them short
SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:FINGER:NAIL]
PLUS_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:TOE:NAIL]
TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:100:100:100:100:100:100:100]
APP_MOD_RATE:1:DAILY:0:1000:0:0:NO_END]
APP_MOD_NOUN:nails:PLURAL]

Here all of the skin is selected and various colors are listed.

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BROWN:1:BURNT_UMBER:1:CINNAMON:1:COPPER:1:DARK_BROWN:1:DARK_PEACH:1:DARK_TAN:1:ECRU:1:PALE_BROWN:1:PALE_CHESTNUT:1:PALE_PINK:1:PEACH:1:PINK:1:RAW_UMBER:1:SEPIA:1:TAN:1:TAUPE_PALE:1:TAUPE_SANDY:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]

[TISSUE_LAYER_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:WRINKLY:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[APP_MOD_RATE:1:YEARLY:0:100:60:0:NO_END]
[APP_MOD_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
[APP_MOD_DESC_RANGE:0:0:0:1:25:50]

Now we do the eyes, using the somewhat clunky eye color patterns.

[SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
[TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:IRIS_EYE_AMETHYST:1:IRIS_EYE_AQUAMARINE:1:IRIS_EYE_BRASS:1:IRIS_EYE_BRONZE:1:IRIS_EYE_COBALT:1:IRIS_EYE_COPPER:1:IRIS_EYE_EMERALD:1:IRIS_EYE_GOLD:1:IRIS_EYE_HELIOTROPE:1:IRIS_EYE_JADE:1:IRIS_EYE_OCHRE:1:IRIS_EYE_RAW_UMBER:1:IRIS_EYE_RUST:1:IRIS_EYE_SILVER:1:IRIS_EYE_SLATE_GRAY:1:IRIS_EYE_TURQUOISE:1]
[TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]

So, that leaves me with two questions for you talented modders out there:
1) Am I doing something stupid here?  I want something that does a pretty good job of getting wounded at about the same frequency a dwarf would.  My hope is that putting dwarf tissues on a sponge body should be OK, but maybe it's not?  All I will be looking for is the frequency of minor bruises (to skin/fat) vs serious injuries (cuts, possibly bruised muscle, broken bones if I could add those).  Do I need to have bones for it to work right?  Are there any other things I might be doing that are a big problem? 

2) What will be the size of this creature relative to a dwarf's head and/or torso?  This I can always find out later, but it would be nice to know.  If I am reading the raws correctly, I used [BODY:BASIC_1PARTBODY_THOUGHT], which gives a "body" with [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:2000], while dwarven heads have [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:300] and upper bodies have [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:1000], so this creature would be twice the size of a dwarven upper body (or the same size as the upper+lower body) and 6.7 times the size of a dwarven head?

Thanks in advance for any help!
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 03:43:32 pm by Pirate Bob »
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random_odd_guy

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2013, 05:29:55 pm »

I think there's a floating head creature in the game. It might be more effective to take THAT, and just replace the tissue layers with that of a dwarf, as well as altering the size to fit that of the head part of a dwarf. (it already being head shaped would likely make it a better candidate) and if you added CAN_EQUIP or whatever that tag was to it, you could have it wear a helm.



Now, if someone could figure out what's going on with the whips, we could finally have realistic combat physics (seeing as the main game already fixed the "hammer-dwarves launching foes into space" thing)
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scamtank

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2013, 05:53:46 pm »

Now, if someone could figure out what's going on with the whips, we could finally have realistic combat physics (seeing as the main game already fixed the "hammer-dwarves launching foes into space" thing)

Mace-like weapon volume, pinpoint contact area and massive velocity multiplier. It behaves more like a hyper-powerful pick than a whip of any sort.

What I did was turn it into a cutting implement, increase the contact area to sword slash levels, drop the penetration depth to a minimal 2-3 units, drop the velocity to 1.0x and dial down the weapon size until it doesn't reach the bone anymore with average goblins. It hurts, it bleeds, it's a terror weapon that can't really cope with armor.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 05:55:56 pm by scamtank »
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random_odd_guy

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2013, 06:12:06 pm »

Raw for edited version please?
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pisskop

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2013, 06:48:22 pm »

Pirate Bob - Well you could literally make a dwarf head  all it is is a head with humanoidparts, tissues, materials.  A onepart body should react the same as a head on a body . . . as far as size dwarves use humanoid sizes, which are probably those found on the humanoids body parts in body_default.  I want to say 30.  This taken in conjunction witg the rest of the body parts gives you tge size when it divides into 60k, te dwarves size.  Im away from a computer but by comparing the

dwarf size / rel head size of a dwarf

you can creat a creature tthe size of a dwarf stealing literally everything else but its body shape from the dwarf creature.


Edit:  yall seem to have this.
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Agent_Irons

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2014, 02:20:25 pm »

It seems like this would be compatible with .40.xx, but I don't think I know enough to check.

Any updates on bolt physics in DF2014?
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mastahcheese

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2014, 02:24:17 pm »

That's some serious necro there, but for once, it's a relevent necro.

I don't think that ranged attacks work differently as far as the physics go, so yeah, as long as they're checked to make sure the other bits are compatable, then it should work.
I'll check myself when I can get on the computer and see the files.
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The Derail Thread

Agent_Irons

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2014, 03:18:31 pm »

That's some serious necro there, but for once, it's a relevent necro.

I don't think that ranged attacks work differently as far as the physics go, so yeah, as long as they're checked to make sure the other bits are compatable, then it should work.
I'll check myself when I can get on the computer and see the files.
I have read the slabs and learned the secrets of life and death, but I only use them for good, I promise.

I had a peek and it looks like as long as you respect the ATTACK PREPARE AND RECOVER tags on the end of the relevant definitions, everything should work okay. I noted arrows and bolts are still SIZE:150 which seems awfully beefy. Then again, I've only dug through about half the bolt science threads(there are a few, and they're very dense indeed), so perhaps nerfing bolt size didn't work very well?

I will test this evening and report back.
Put in the things! Seems to work okay. Wild animals are trickier to kill than they were before, but wood bolts still cut up some giraffes and smash cavy skulls, so everything seems to work.

Relevant raws
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I made crossbows a little better than bows. I should feel shame.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 10:17:55 am by Agent_Irons »
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Pirate Bob

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2014, 01:44:27 pm »

It seems like this would be compatible with .40.xx, but I don't think I know enough to check.

Any updates on bolt physics in DF2014?
I created a thread about this.  The short answer is no, there do not appear to be any significant changes. 

Sorry for no updates in a long time.  I got busy with other things (like having a baby...), and also had interpreted that dev logs as meaning there *would* be significant changes in the new version, which made me less excited about reverse engineering the old version.

I believe Agent_Irons posted raws should result in 100% deflection of bolts/arrows by armor (provided the armor material is equal to or better than the bolt material, with adamantine>divine metal>steel>iron=bronze>copper>silver).  At least, if I am reading my own plots correctly.  Unmodified bolts/arrows have masses of about 1, so the momentum of the projectile will be about 25-30.  The contact area being 5 instead of 10 doesn't matter much, as (contact_area*layer_thickness) gets rounded to the nearest 100, and layer thickness is 15 or 20.  I prefer contact area 10 so that thick armor (helms, breastplate) gets rounded to 200, and gives better protection than the rest of the armor, which rounds down to 100.
Wild animals are trickier to kill than they were before, but wood bolts still cut up some giraffes and smash cavy skulls, so everything seems to work.

Relevant raws
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I made crossbows a little better than bows. I should feel shame.
I'm not sure what you mean that animals are harder to kill.  Do you mean just with wood bolts?  I did controlled testing and found no significant difference in deadliness of bolts with momentum ~75 against unarmored targets, so I would think 25-30 would still be effective, but maybe not.

Anyhow, if you want there to be some chance of projectiles penetrating the lower armors (copper, bronzer) you can increase SHOOT_FORCE to 40 or 50.  I like setting it closer to 70-75 to make lower armors mostly ineffective, iron about 50% effective and steel/addy almost 100% effective.  If you are happy with armor always deflecting projectiles provided the armor material is equal or better than the projectile, then your raws are fine.

Also, if what I am saying seems to be way off, please say so and I will check things more carefully when I have more time/sleep.

mastahcheese

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Re: Broken Arrow - Fixed Archery Balance
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2014, 01:47:55 pm »

No, I think you've got it spot on, it seems to work great.
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The Derail Thread
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