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[guitarxe]

What little I know about historical Bronze and Iron weapons/armour Iron was a much better materials. Bronze, being softer, would degrade quickly in battle while Iron blades kept their edge for much longer.

So why is it that in-game for most purposes Bronze and Iron are basically identical? I mean, does anyone know why this was set to be like this intentionally by Toady?

[Zivilin]

Directly from Wikipedia:

Though bronze is generally harder than wrought iron, with Vickers hardness of 60–258 vs. 30–80, the Bronze Age gave way to the Iron Age; this happened because iron was easier to find and easier to process. Bronze was still used during the Iron Age; for example, officers in the Roman army had bronze swords while foot soldiers had iron; but, for many purposes, the weaker wrought iron was found to be sufficiently strong. Archaeologists suspect that a serious disruption of the tin trade precipitated the transition. The population migrations around 1200–1100 BC reduced the shipping of tin around the Mediterranean (and from Great Britain), limiting supplies and raising prices.

Apparently, bronze being inferior to iron is a common misconception. The key factor that made iron more popular was availability.

[MasterShizzle]

This. Iron ore is native in a lot of places. Even in the Americas we've got iron, and it's only because the European nations interrupted the development of native American culture that the various American tribes never got around to using it. Another hundred years or so and the tribes would have been just as well-equipped as the Europeans.

Bronze, on the other hand, isn't natively occuring, and it's an alloy to boot. While it exhibits most of the same properties as iron, it's more expensive in terms of availability and manufacture since most places don't have both copper AND tin ores.

Use-wise they're about equal, as the game depicts. It's not as brittle as iron, it oxidizes only on the exterior (whereas iron rusts all throughout extremely quickly), and it's better-suited for a lot of things.  Off the top of my head I know most ancient ships used bronze because it didn't rust, and cannons are better-made from bronze and brass because it's elastic enough to not explode when it's pressurized (iron cannons are a good way to kill off your own troops). There's probably other reasons, but yeah. It's fairly accurate on the game's part, aside from the mix ratio.

[Anathema]

Another interesting bit of trivia is that the Greeks came up with the terms "Bronze Age" and "Iron Age," knowing full well that iron (at least, the early poor-quality iron they knew) was an inferior metal. They had a bad case of "things were much better in the good old days, now the kids have no respect for our traditions and everything sucks." So some Greek historians posited that they had started out in a mythological "Golden Age" where people lived among the Gods and everything was great, then things descended through the "Silver Age" down to the "Bronze Age" where pious men waged war with the then-plentiful bronze. "Iron Age" was the derogatory term they used for their present day, where society had decayed and men were impious and immoral, symbolized by the rarity of bronze and the ubiquity of that inferior iron crap. Note the progression of metals, in order of decreasing rarity and value: Gold->Silver->Bronze->Iron, each new age was a step down.

It wasn't until much later that more recent historians borrowed those terms, and used them to denote the worldwide progression from bronze to iron as if that was a good thing. Probably has to do with hindsight - now we know that working with iron would eventually lead to the superior steel, so the move to iron turned out to be beneficial in the long run. To the people actually experiencing the shift from bronze to iron, early iron was just a poor substitute for bronze.

[guitarxe]

Hm, I can imagine how that point of view is even further strengthened by the social impact of the Industrial Revolution.

You know, I think the next fort I make I'm ditching iron (and yes, even steel), and gonna go with Copper/Bronze.

[DiezIrae]

Hm, I can imagine how that point of view is even further strengthened by the social impact of the Industrial Revolution.

You know, I think the next fort I make I'm ditching iron (and yes, even steel), and gonna go with Copper/Bronze.

The best weapon is nothing if not in the hand of a dwarf that can use it... or at least in the hand of someone that can hit. Now I really want to throw axes and hammers like in Dead Island, no matter the material, it hurts and is effective.

[Blucher]

If anything, straight up iron weapons should be inferior to bronze.

[krisslanza]

Also keep in mind that, for the rough time period DF is based in, the iron techinques are probably very primitive. The iron isn't THAT great, it's just plentiful. I'd think modern-day refining and all that, would make iron "better".

[smakemupagus]

Tangent:  the materials data DF uses for steel is that of Stainless, which is a modern composition which is probably inferior for weapons purpose.

[KoffeeKup]

Many civilizations that used Iron successfully actually used steel. Real iron is brittle and fractures easily even if it does hold an edge. Bronze on the other hand is flexible even if it is softer.

Steel really is 98% iron, and so Iron means poor quality iron will many impurities. (about 20% is just crap) so yes, Iron is better than bronze if forged correctly.

[misko27]

You know, The nations of west africa actually went straight to the iron age. Tin is rare.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

yeah, i allways found bronze age df to be much more fun. bronze can be even more of a bitch to produce than steel, for a much more balanced advantage

[saltmummy626]

Tangent:  the materials data DF uses for steel is that of Stainless, which is a modern composition which is probably inferior for weapons purpose.

stainless steel is just steel with nickel in it, making it "stainless." in other words, it doesn't rust as easily. im currently using a stainless steel bowl as a crucible, it holds up to the heat outstandingly. Bronze is actually a very good metal. apart from its regular properties, bronze is non-ferrous (its not made of iron) so it doesn't spark making it ideal for storing flammable materials or pipes for transporting such. we use brass for things like that though because brass is, as ive read, "self-lubricating" and makes for very smooth moving parts that stay smooth moving in things like valves or gears.

when it comes to weapon and armor, they are relatively equal, but as has been mentioned in this thread, tin an copper ores aren't usually found together.

also, bronze looks nicer than iron.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

why isn't bronze significantly more expensive?

[krisslanza]

why isn't bronze significantly more expensive?

With the ability to smelt and use iron, I can't imagine bronze is as valuable anymore. Iron may not be MASSIVELY better, but due to the plentiful-ness of it...
Also tin itself isn't that valuable in DF.