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Author Topic: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training  (Read 56873 times)

QuantumMenace

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2012, 03:08:43 pm »

Oops, sorry. The dwarves and seeds don't "fall" per se, but the effect is the same.

The physics revamp caused retracting bridges (and probably drawbridges) to only throw items 1 tile in any direction, and never throw them up 1 z-level at all.

The pit is 1 z-level deep. Just channel out 2 tiles and build bridges on the ramp tiles inside the pit. Dwarves stand in the pit with the seeds, and when the bridges retract or extend, the dwarves and seeds may get thrown into the opposite tile, repeatedly pelting them with seeds.

A 2x2 pit might work as well. A larger pit may increase the risk of dwarves smacking into each other.
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Urist McDwarfFortress

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2012, 05:50:04 pm »

This is all awesome and very dwarfy, but does it have any advantage over the standard danger room? Besides the hilarity factor, obviously.
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megahelmet

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2012, 06:18:16 pm »

The dwarven death trampoline seems pretty promising. I shall test with mugs later and report back.
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2012, 09:26:28 pm »

Oops, sorry. The dwarves and seeds don't "fall" per se, but the effect is the same.

The physics revamp caused retracting bridges (and probably drawbridges) to only throw items 1 tile in any direction, and never throw them up 1 z-level at all.

The pit is 1 z-level deep. Just channel out 2 tiles and build bridges on the ramp tiles inside the pit. Dwarves stand in the pit with the seeds, and when the bridges retract or extend, the dwarves and seeds may get thrown into the opposite tile, repeatedly pelting them with seeds.

A 2x2 pit might work as well. A larger pit may increase the risk of dwarves smacking into each other.
I will have to experiment with this method of creating large numbers of flying objects on the cheap.
What happens in a 1x1 pit?

This is all awesome and very dwarfy, but does it have any advantage over the standard danger room? Besides the hilarity factor, obviously.
It will train up armor user and their physical attributes much better than a Danger Room does.  Danger rooms give fast increases to combat SKILLS, but don't proportionally have a very great effect on their physical attributes.  A danger-room will give you a legendary axedwarf who isn't necessarily Tough and Agile.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
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Trif

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2012, 04:25:17 am »

This is all awesome and very dwarfy, but does it have any advantage over the standard danger room? Besides the hilarity factor, obviously.
It will train up armor user and their physical attributes much better than a Danger Room does.  Danger rooms give fast increases to combat SKILLS, but don't proportionally have a very great effect on their physical attributes.  A danger-room will give you a legendary axedwarf who isn't necessarily Tough and Agile.
Also, this method doesn't seem as exploiting as danger rooms.

Alternate answer for people who like exploits: Don't think of it as a different danger room, think of it as an addition to the current danger room.
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2012, 05:01:07 am »

A 1x1 room with a retracting bridge will knock dwarves off their feet, but will not cause items to fly in any meaningful manner.

A 2x1 room with two 1x1 retracting bridges will be required I think to get items properly flung and properly automate the armor-plinking process, possibly elevating it to Danger-Room levels of exploityness if Quantum Menace's accounts are to be believed, although the fact that dwarves can get injured from being flung themselves might mitigate this some.

As always, additional research is required.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

Reelya

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2012, 06:21:02 am »

If flinging into walls is deadly, try lining the area with doors and see what happens.

I am Leo

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2012, 07:41:52 am »

Do it with axes rather than seeds and make a highly entertaining goblin blender. Less efficient than any other trap, but good for obscure challenges.
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2012, 08:25:40 pm »

Do it with axes rather than seeds and make a highly entertaining goblin blender. Less efficient than any other trap, but good for obscure challenges.
I don't believe that flying items have any sharpness (just mass and density) but I could be wrong.
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Foolprooof way to penetrate aquifers of unlimited depth.  (Make sure to import at least 10 stones for mechanisms)
Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
Quote
"Urist had a little lamb
whose feet tracked blighted soot.
And into every face he saw
his sooty foot he put."

Trif

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2012, 05:20:32 am »

Do it with axes rather than seeds and make a highly entertaining goblin blender. Less efficient than any other trap, but good for obscure challenges.
I don't believe that flying items have any sharpness (just mass and density) but I could be wrong.
I tried dropping serrated glass disks a while ago, and it made some nice goblin chunks. So sharpness is certainly a factor.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2012, 05:30:55 am »

My garbage crusher has become an instrument of death/hilarity. It is a 3x1 drawbridge activated by pressure plate. Dwarves drop items into it through a 1x1 hole 1z above. Some items get crushed when the bridge falls down onto them. Some items get flung back up onto the square dwarves stand on when dumping. Many a dwarf has been badly injured or killed by flying items as they get flung back up. The system has recently been redesigned to include a hatch and a lever to operate it to avoid the flinging, but civilians and fully armoured military dwarves alike were getting badly hurt by a wide variety of items falling on them.

So, yea, a drawbridge will fling things both vertically and horizontally, apparently 1 tile in each direction independantly.
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wagawaga

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2012, 05:56:23 am »

Do it with axes rather than seeds and make a highly entertaining goblin blender. Less efficient than any other trap, but good for obscure challenges.
I don't believe that flying items have any sharpness (just mass and density) but I could be wrong.
Assuming that falling items are treated the same way thrown items are, they would.
Quoting from this wiki page:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that non-weapon items deal bludgeoning damage, while ammo and weapons deal the same type of damage they would deal when normally used.
Besides, is there any kind of item that is "sharp" but isn't a weapon or ammo?
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2012, 06:42:54 am »

Sharpened rocks.
You know, from knapping.
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Urist Da Vinci

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2012, 09:05:19 am »

I dropped 100 lead bowls (via eagle) all at once on a steel-armored dwarf in the arena. All of the bowls deflected harmlessly off the armor.

I then dropped 100 iron bowls using the same method. The dwarf suffered injuries with each hit and died due to skull=>brain injury.

Lead bowls are heavier than iron bowls. However, if I repeated the iron test but modded iron from [IMPACT_YIELD:542500] to [IMPACT_YIELD:5425], the iron bowls deflect harmlessly. Lead has [IMPACT_YIELD:35000].

MasterShizzle

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2012, 10:17:17 am »

I dropped 100 lead bowls (via eagle) all at once on a steel-armored dwarf in the arena. All of the bowls deflected harmlessly off the armor.

I then dropped 100 iron bowls using the same method. The dwarf suffered injuries with each hit and died due to skull=>brain injury.

Lead bowls are heavier than iron bowls. However, if I repeated the iron test but modded iron from [IMPACT_YIELD:542500] to [IMPACT_YIELD:5425], the iron bowls deflect harmlessly. Lead has [IMPACT_YIELD:35000].
Now THAT is interesting. So, lead is heavier, but in Dwarf Fortress it's also much softer and does less damage on impact. Makes sense why we can't normally make lead war hammers, then.
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