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Author Topic: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training  (Read 56774 times)

Broseph Stalin

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2012, 10:34:41 am »

Now THAT is interesting. So, lead is heavier, but in Dwarf Fortress it's also much softer and does less damage on impact. Makes sense why we can't normally make lead war hammers, then.
I'm pretty sure this is known but often ignored. When explaining the hierarchy of metals it's easier to say "only density matters" in blunt impact than to explain how it really works.

QuantumMenace

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2012, 02:34:13 pm »

I'm trying a 2x2 pit. Both 1x2 drawbridges are connected to the same lever. With ~600 seeds it trains stats very fast, though I've never tried a conventional danger room for reference.

It does appear to have the problem of some dwarves receiving many more hits than others. I'm guessing this is because only one of the dwarves gets hit if there are several on the same tile, as Hans Lemurson described in the first post. It looks like collisions prioritize dwarves who entered the fort the earliest. Setting up a way to train one dwarf at a time seems advisable, or a larger pit could help by spreading them out, as long as they won't be injured by skidding.
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Berossus

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2012, 03:11:05 pm »

Cant you turn this into a perpetum mobile?

Im imagining the following setup:
.) 2 rooms, 1x2 each, above each other
.) lets label the tiles 1-2 from left to right
.) an up stair on tile 1 on the lower level, a downstair on tile 1 of the upper level
.) a pressure plate linked to the bridge on tile 2 (the burrow) on the lower level
.) a 1x1 stockpile designation on the drawbridge (upper level)
.) at least 2 non-lethal objects in the burrow that the stockpile above accepts

Da plan: Dwarf is in his room under the drawbridge, suddenly overcome by the compulsion to store the item in the pile above him.
He takes the item, goes over the stairs, drops the item in the stockpile.
Then he will go to take the second item, activates the pressure plate, opening the bridge, dropping the item from above on himself. Bridge resets after that (if i read that correctly in the wiki).
He now has again 2 items to get to the stockpile, a valid path since the bridge is closed, and the circle begins anew.

To avoid starvation abd such, you could add a 1x1 tile with a bed that has a channel above it where food and drink are dropped down.

Would that work?
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Reelya

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2012, 04:25:58 pm »

You can't make a stockpile on a bridge or hatch. You can make a garbage pile or pit though, but objects will lose their "dump" tag once they're dumped.

Anyway, the pit with bridges inside idea has already been discussed, it beats all "dropping" ideas and doesn't need to be reloaded, and other dwarves can keep filling the pit while it's in use
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 04:31:55 pm by Reelya »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2012, 05:53:59 pm »

Now THAT is interesting. So, lead is heavier, but in Dwarf Fortress it's also much softer and does less damage on impact. Makes sense why we can't normally make lead war hammers, then.
I'm pretty sure this is known but often ignored. When explaining the hierarchy of metals it's easier to say "only density matters" in blunt impact than to explain how it really works.
At one point, that was how it worked. It might still work like that for weapon-weapons...Quietust, Quietust, Quietust...
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doublestrafe

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2012, 03:09:00 pm »

Is everyone that's using seeds dumping them manually? It so happens that in my current (ULTIMATE CHALLENGE) fort, I put together a minecart quantum stockpile before I had a single bag, and in the food stockpile it turns out that dwarves absolutely refuse to put individual seeds into minecarts. It clogged up the QS badly. You can see it here, second stop from the right:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Both stockpiles and the track stop were set to accept all types of food. I can't find any reason for it except that dwarves only want to put seeds in bags.

Toady needs to implement hoppers.
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2012, 07:03:06 am »

Quantum Menace's double bridge tossing pit has proved to be quite effective.  My two dwarves who were volunteered for the super-soldier program are Legendary Armor-users and have their attributes enhanced enough to have bonuses in all physical aspects.  They are Strong, Agile, Tough, and Tireless, with good Kinesthetic sense and above average Willpower.

The only downside is that they still have no actual fighting skills.

The "Tossing Pit" seems to be as effective as a danger room, but trains up a complementary skillset and enhances physical attributes more.  Combining "Danger Rooms" and "Tossing Pits" together should yield some proper dwarven Super-Soldiers, with finely toned bodies and skilled in all martial aspects, except perhaps dodging.  That's a useful one, but I'm not sure of the best way to focus on training up that skill.
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Toughen Dwarves by dropping stuff on them.  (Nothing too heavy though, and make sure to wear armor.)
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Reelya

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2012, 07:13:55 am »

I've never really set up danger rooms, they don't train dodge, at all, or just not very fast?

Broken

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2012, 08:12:25 am »

I've never really set up danger rooms, they don't train dodge, at all, or just not very fast?

DR normally train dodge very slow because the dwarf usually parries or blocks all atacks instead of dodging them. If you retire the weapons and shields it trains dodge VERY fast.
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I am Leo

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2012, 05:06:17 am »

I tried this last night. I dropped horse hair on my dwarves and broke a load of skulls and ribs through steel armour. Am I missing something about hair being heavy?
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AutomataKittay

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2012, 05:11:52 am »

I tried this last night. I dropped horse hair on my dwarves and broke a load of skulls and ribs through steel armour. Am I missing something about hair being heavy?

Big animal products seems to be surprisingly heavy. I'd suggest using small animal skull totems if you want byproduct dropping!
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Fluoman

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2012, 07:26:05 am »

I don't understand the double bridge toss pit. Could anyone be nice enough to draw it?
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SharkForce

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2012, 03:27:07 pm »

I tried this last night. I dropped horse hair on my dwarves and broke a load of skulls and ribs through steel armour. Am I missing something about hair being heavy?

Big animal products seems to be surprisingly heavy. I'd suggest using small animal skull totems if you want byproduct dropping!

or you could slaughter them via (high altitude) pitting into horrific 10-sawblade death traps. the resulting shreds of animal should be much lighter, i would imagine :P
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Tsuchigumo550

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2012, 09:31:19 pm »

I'm sort of wondering what would happen if you take lightweight items that normally cause no injury and drop them from distances of 20+, 3ven 30Z+ levels. Assuming the items gain speed, we might be able to kill goblins with seeds.

Or, we could build a shaft from the surface straight to candyland and set up a nice spike trap there, see how many clowns die from sudden supersonic impalement.
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SharkForce

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Re: Soldier toughening: Item Drop Training
« Reply #74 on: October 31, 2012, 10:45:13 pm »

I'm sort of wondering what would happen if you take lightweight items that normally cause no injury and drop them from distances of 20+, 3ven 30Z+ levels. Assuming the items gain speed, we might be able to kill goblins with seeds.

Or, we could build a shaft from the surface straight to candyland and set up a nice spike trap there, see how many clowns die from sudden supersonic impalement.

heh, that might be entertaining. breach the circus, then start pitting thousands of stone mugs down the spire... of course, you'd probably need a lot of blind people to keep that up. but there would be something satisfying about killing the clowns with a rain of mugs. or maybe socks. death by laundry :)
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