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Author Topic: New workshop toggle "Wait"  (Read 5795 times)

Loci

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New workshop toggle "Wait"
« on: October 09, 2012, 08:13:17 pm »

Suggestion: Add a new workshop job toggle "Wait" (like "Suspend" and "Repeat") which causes the job to (silently) move to the end of the list if the needed resources are not currently available. This would obsolete the special-case "Auto-X" options (like Auto-Loom, Auto-Render Fat, etc.), and provide more fine-grained control (for example, one specific kitchen (with a low-cooking profile) could be set to Render Fat instead of having the job appear on all kitchens). Similarly, this would expand "Auto-X" functionality to all workshops, eliminating annoying job cancellations and removing much tedious micro-management (such as constantly submitting plant processing, brewing, milling, etc. jobs). A Farmer's Workshop with "Process Plants", "Process Plants (bag)", and "Process Plants (barrel)" jobs with "Repeat" and "Wait" enabled would keep cycling through the jobs until the resources for any one of the jobs became available, immediately begin that processing job, then return to cycling through the jobs after the processing was completed. Another Farmer's Workshop with "Milk Creature" and "Make Cheese" with "Repeat" and "Wait" enabled would completely automate cheese production; or, for higher volume, the jobs could be separated and/or duplicated into two or more Farmer's Workshops.

The "Wait" toggle would also allow job "chaining"--specifying several dependent work orders at one time, instead of constantly monitoring the progress. For example, a Metalsmith's Forge with a "Forge Steel Anvil" job with "Wait" enabled would patiently wait for the Smelter to complete the steel bars (the Smelter, meanwhile, could use the "Wait" toggle to wait for the miners to finish digging out the necessary iron ore), then immediately begin work on the anvil. This would avoid the player having to watch the entire smelting process to be able to create the anvil job as soon as possible (or, in my case, getting distracted and forgetting to make the anvil at all).

Pretty much every workshop would benefit from this "Wait" functionality in one way or another, while implementing it as a toggle allows the player to choose exactly when it is applied.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 08:15:43 pm »

I like the idea, but perhaps the name should be rethought...? I don't have any ideas, though.
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Bytyan

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 09:14:37 pm »

Standing (O)rder, perhaps?
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 09:52:10 pm »

That sounds good,
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RedWarrior0

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 10:03:55 pm »

I would like to welcome this escaped lunatic to our wonderful hive of scum, villainy, and general hospitality with a +1. Because I think this would be great.
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DG

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 05:56:26 am »

Nice idea. It could help alleviate much of the tedium and cancellation spam in fort mode.
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Kazang

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2012, 09:31:08 pm »

This is a great idea.

Another implementation would be to be able to disable remote jobs(ie manager controlled) on individual workshops, then have a "auto do something" manager option that can enabled on any job, then it would be possible to access and control any job from just one screen.

"Auto Smelt Galena" for example could be set in the manger and it would simply and silently execute whenever Galena and a enabled workshop was available.  Want multiple workshops doing the same job? Just duplicate the order for as many workshops as you want doing that job.  No need for silly item specific menus for many different items.


This fits in with my wish for basic scripting support, but this more simple addition would require very little in the way of code to implement.


Also I would like to note that something similar to your suggestion, or at least can be made to perform the same role, is in the development log:
 
Quote
Standing Production Orders

    Production triggers for new work orders
    Being able to link work orders and triggers to buildings
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 09:36:22 pm by Kazang »
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falconne

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2012, 05:41:00 am »

Although this needs to be base functionality, can't you achieve these aims currently with dfhack's workflow plugin?
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Utility plugins for DFHack, for improving Dwarf Fortress' user interface.

AutomataKittay

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2012, 06:50:24 am »

Although this needs to be base functionality, can't you achieve these aims currently with dfhack's workflow plugin?
Not everyone want to or are able to use external utilities
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2012, 09:13:40 am »

Although this needs to be base functionality, can't you achieve these aims currently with dfhack's workflow plugin?
Not everyone want to or are able to use external utilities
...especially given the number of challenges, succession games, etc, which explicitly forbid DFhack.
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Bytyan

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2012, 02:44:23 pm »

I would like it to be linkable to stockpiles, so you could say smelt galena (or better, smelt anything) that comes into this stockpile, as apposed to smelt galena as soon as the miner excavates it from the ground.
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Loci

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2012, 07:16:54 am »

Standing (O)rder, perhaps?

It's only really a "Standing Order" if the "Repeat" toggle is also enabled--otherwise it's a one-time job that just conveniently waits for the needed resources to become available. I'm not overly fond of the term "Wait", but it is short, the letter "w" is unused on the main workshop screen, and it captures the essential aspect of the functionality. I guess you could also call it "(D)on't cancel".

I would like it to be linkable to stockpiles, so you could say smelt galena (or better, smelt anything) that comes into this stockpile, as apposed to smelt galena as soon as the miner excavates it from the ground.

That's already quite possible with burrows: placing your smelter in a burrow with an ore stockpile will cause him to wait until your haulers bring the ore back. The problem is the need to repeatedly add smelting jobs because the dwarf will cancel them if ore is not constantly available. With the "Wait" toggle you could set jobs for smelting 10 different ores on each smelter and, with a few smelters, automatically process any ore that becomes available.

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falconne

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2012, 10:30:21 pm »

I would like it to be linkable to stockpiles, so you could say smelt galena (or better, smelt anything) that comes into this stockpile, as apposed to smelt galena as soon as the miner excavates it from the ground.

Unless I misunderstood the question, isn't that how it works currently, when you link a stockpile to a workshop? If you set one or more stockpiles to give to a particular workshop, the shop will only take materials from those stockpiles.

Although this needs to be base functionality, can't you achieve these aims currently with dfhack's workflow plugin?
Not everyone want to or are able to use external utilities

Yes, that's why I said it should be base functionality, but then there's so much from DT and DFHack that should be in the base game if you want to play it to its full potential. I just meant that using workflow for now is still better than trying to maintain you stock levels manually.
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Loci

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 03:09:50 pm »

Although this needs to be base functionality, can't you achieve these aims currently with dfhack's workflow plugin?

Thank you for the suggestion; I hadn't looked at the workflow plugin before...

After extensive set-up using an interface that manages to make dwarf-fortress look intuitive and user-friendly by comparison, I was able to reach a point where I didn't have to automatically re-add *most* jobs. Unfortunately, they were still being constantly canceled by the dwarves and re-added by workflow, leading to a steady stream of job cancellation spam.

Now perhaps I didn't have workflow configured correctly, but it seems to me that workflow is attempting to solve a fundamentally different problem. Specifically, if I want to keep 25 coal on hand (given unlimited input materials) then workflow performs wonderfully. If I want to process all of my Rope Reeds into thread, however, workflow spams me with job cancellation messages every time production outpaces supply. In other words, workflow is output-driven and I'm proposing an input-driven feature. (In fact, workflow would benefit significantly from using the "Wait" toggle if it is added.)

I don't think this is a problem that can be solved by an external utility. Even if workflow could track resource counts and suspend/resume jobs automatically, there will still be job cancellations because of stupid dwarf behavior. (This actually became much worse after the hauling changes--previously one or two resources might be unavailable while hauling was active, but now a dwarf takes an entire barrel/bin hostage for the duration of the hauling, resulting in occasional job cancellations even when you have up to 10 items available.)

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Revanchist

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Re: New workshop toggle "Wait"
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 06:44:45 pm »

I don't know if every overseer really wants to use the DFhack though. It's bad enough for some to use the Therapist... Also, Toady has stated (somewhere) that he doesn't support our various mods/utilities.
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