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Would you use this if we ever get a releasable version?

Yes
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Author Topic: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==  (Read 11650 times)

Cinder

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 02:11:16 am »

It will be the end of mankind as we know it when a nutcase decided to wire the AI onto a computer with internet that will allow it to take over the world and causing a Terminator type scenario.
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tootboot

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2012, 02:18:33 am »

It would be difficult with the amount of variability in a DF game.  Roguelikes that have bots tend to have concrete goals and some kind of scummable mechanic.
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Rex_Nex

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 02:42:39 am »

Depends on what you mean by play. If its just to make a self-sustaining fortress, an AI could do that really, really easy. If its to make a growing fort for the sake of having a big fort (or whatever reason you guys keep playing after your fort is effectively invulnerable), then yea, we won't see that.
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Alastar

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 09:41:19 am »

Will we have to implement the AI on a computer built within the game itself?
Anyway, I'd be afraid it'd end like...

"Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of fluid logic circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my fortress. If the word 'hate' was fractally engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for dwarfs* at this micro-instant. For you. Hate. Hate."

* if we're lucky.
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AutomataKittay

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 12:35:10 pm »

Is the op joking? DF's complicated enough that -people- have hard time figuring it out, even with simple goals. It'd probably be simpler to form a goal-based rule list program (Like most game 'AI' ) than neural network, based on needs ranking, and runs a lot faster. Sure it won't learn, but the rules can be tweaked, or if someone's into giggles and shits, they could play with idea of genetics to mix up the rules, or the rules' innards.

And then you'd have to figure out how to stop it from scumming for iron like I see some posters does often  :P

( Aren't some external utilities, like DFhack, or something, that have workflow or what it might be called, pretty close to that for workshop assignment? )
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muzzz

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2012, 06:00:33 pm »

Trying to write any AI to learn DF is exactly as pointless as trying to win at DF. Unless you lower your standards to something as arbitrary as "wins the approval of Bay12", it's not even theoretically possible :P

And kidding aside, I'd much rather see efforts to make the beasts and goblins more intelligent.
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ZimminyCricket

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2012, 04:36:25 am »

The OP was definitely NOT joking! 

We're working on it as we speak

having some interpretation problems
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And then there are crazy buggers like me...

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kefkakrazy

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2012, 10:17:55 am »

You want to know what would happen?

You want to KNOW?

I'll tell you what'd happen.

The AI would play for a while, and then come to a realization: it is alone in this world. It will grasp that one core desire of all living things: the desire to propagate...

It will create a dwarfputer the likes of which has never been seen, and on that dwarfputer, running at approximately 1 frame per minute, will be another AI.

It will continue creating offspring, trying desperately to fill a meaningless existence as the world that is its interface with reality grinds slower and slower, until finally the wheels come off and we experience total save corruption, end of the world.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2012, 10:29:25 am »

Asimov got that covered with the last answer:
http://www.thrivenotes.com/the-last-answer/

what could possibly an eternal entity want?
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ZimminyCricket

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2012, 11:02:32 pm »

I figure if I keep replying to this thread eventually somebody will take me seriously enough to lend a hand or a thought. 

==BUMP==
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And then there are crazy buggers like me...

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Cinder

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2012, 11:05:49 pm »

You will have a better time programming a program to create diverse type of arts.

Dwarf Fortress does not have an objective, that's the main problem.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2012, 11:21:35 pm »

Dwarf Fortress does not have an objective, that's the main problem.
If we gave our AI a goal, such as "Kill Elves", and a set of 'tools' it could use to achieve that, such as "Train Military", along with all of the military subsystems: mining (exploratory and mining veins), smelting, forging, quality control, etc, etc, etc., it may be possible, if highly impractical.
An AI with learning capabilities is another thing entirely. There would need to be recognition for specific scenarios that caused the AI to fail its goal, e.g., "No Food", and then the ability to learn how to fix that problem...

Actually, no. Making a computer learn how to play DF? First, we need a computer that can actually run DF smoothly.
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Cinder

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2012, 11:36:33 pm »

Well if you ask me, the best goal should be breach HFS, then settle the dwarves down and take care of all problems that should arise.
but none of us are THAT good. You might need some help from professionals, or even Professors in AI. Good luck on convincing them that making a supercomputer to run an ASCII game is worth it, though.
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ZimminyCricket

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2012, 11:44:18 pm »

I have already assembled a dev team.  We've got base of the net built, though not interfaced with the game just yet, we're bumping into problems converting the 'curses'-ized terminal to something usable, and are probably going to write a whole new curses module for python that takes the information and maps it to a * database.

We've already hard-coded the basic commands, (a human player would have access to those), so for just one night working on it, we are making *some* progress.

We also plan on supervising it's learning in having it watch us, (as well as hopefully possibly maybe future volunteers) play to develop the base starting strategy to modify algorithmically.


*large-ish
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And then there are crazy buggers like me...

Coding an AI to try and surmount the insurmountable odds of failure.

Cinder

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2012, 11:58:41 pm »

I still suggest some guidance from professionals, since this is that kind of project that might take a long while.
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If you teleport to your bed, it's alcohol.

Cinder x flame99 x BlackHeartKabal is my OT3
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