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Author Topic: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==  (Read 15158 times)

blue sam3

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #75 on: October 26, 2012, 07:06:42 am »

Basically, the NN combines multiple inputs and melts them together in such a way that, if you train it right, it'll make "smart" decisions.  You COULD do it with an IF/THEN chain (or a switch, or whatever) but the more factors to consider, the fuzzier the lines between good and bad decisions in somewhat different scenarios, the more an NN starts looking a lot simpler to implement than an IF/THEN chain.

That's going to be the real problem. There's a funny story I've heard a few times about a neural network that was successfully trained to distinguish between stock and in-the-field photos of military aircraft. Unfortunately, it was supposed to be an IFF.

Morale of the story: if you use artificial training sets instead of simulation, you risk training your NN to recognize unintended patterns.

There was another issue with somebody doing something similar: trying to train a neural network to identify tanks (as being tanks, not worrying about IFF, just "oh look, there's a tank in that bush", but since they'd taken all the tank photos on one (sunny) day and the non-tank photos on another (overcast) day, they ended up with a neural network capable of telling them what the weather was like outside.
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Mr Space Cat

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #76 on: October 26, 2012, 07:31:40 am »

Posting to Watch.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Fieari

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #77 on: October 26, 2012, 04:09:45 pm »

Difficulty notwithstanding.  A team of researchers did it for civilization III, it can be done.

Google is failing me, and I am very interested in seeing this.  Any links?
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ZimminyCricket

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #78 on: October 26, 2012, 05:03:33 pm »

Difficulty notwithstanding.  A team of researchers did it for civilization III, it can be done.

Google is failing me, and I am very interested in seeing this.  Any links?

I'll have to do some digging myself, which will have to wait until I get home, as I am at work right now.
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HiEv

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #79 on: October 26, 2012, 05:55:00 pm »

Difficulty notwithstanding.  A team of researchers did it for civilization III, it can be done.

Google is failing me, and I am very interested in seeing this.  Any links?

I don't know about Civ III, but Muzzz linked to a paper about an AI which could play Civ II and win about 78% of the time in this post earlier in this thread.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 05:56:42 pm by HiEv »
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Phlum

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #80 on: October 26, 2012, 08:37:27 pm »

i had thought about suggesting this, but you beat me to it. I was thinking more like a gamemode for it though. feel like this would probobly be a time lapse, but it would be cool if you could actually watch the dorfs.

The most cpu stressing screen saver ever to be imagined, +1.

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ZimminyCricket

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #81 on: October 26, 2012, 09:17:56 pm »

i had thought about suggesting this, but you beat me to it. I was thinking more like a gamemode for it though. feel like this would probobly be a time lapse, but it would be cool if you could actually watch the dorfs.

The most cpu stressing screen saver ever to be imagined, +1.

We're hoping it will be real-time actually.  Our curses interpreter layer is going to be running in real time, to catch the screen.  Simply allowing it to re-display what it sees should not add that much overhead.
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ZimminyCricket

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #82 on: October 26, 2012, 09:38:29 pm »

Oh Great And Wise Toady-one,

Any chance you yourself will partake in this thread?

Love to get some feedback from the horses mouth!
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A Neural Net To Play The Game. Has This Been Done?
« Reply #83 on: October 27, 2012, 08:20:40 am »

Difficulty notwithstanding.  A team of researchers did it for civilization III, it can be done.
Really? Why? Doesn't Civilization III already play Civilization III? Admittedly the AI cheats like a cheating cheater trying to win a medal for cheating, but it does play pretty much the same game you do. Doesn't it?
As they point out on TvTropess, its a different game. They make up for artificial stupidity with the computer is a cheating bastard.

EDIT: Just looked down, appearantly Civilization has a entire section devoted to them. Well then.
Civilization already comes with AI to play a game much like Civilization, which DF does not.

Oh Great And Wise Toady-one,

Any chance you yourself will partake in this thread?

Love to get some feedback from the horses mouth!
Toady's not omniscient, and probably doesn't have enough time to read all of these threads. Perhaps you should PM him about the thread.
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hops

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2012, 02:41:17 am »

Honestly despite Toady's post count I never saw him anywhere except Future of the Fortress and those jazz.
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Telgin

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #85 on: October 28, 2012, 03:58:44 pm »

Back when the forums were new I think he posted a lot more frequently.  He mostly devotes time to moderating now that there is a large enough user base of veteran players that he doesn't have to answer questions directly.

I believe he does still read the forums off and on, but probably mostly when a thread gets reported.  He does respond to PMs, or at least did to mine when I asked him about some of the more hidden math behind some gameplay mechanics.  A PM might get some response, but I'm not sure how much input he'd have for this sort of thing.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 04:05:39 pm by Telgin »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #86 on: October 28, 2012, 04:03:04 pm »

Possibly "Huh? What are they doing?!?"
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katwithk

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2012, 07:57:30 am »

A veyr interesting proposal, especially considerign just five minutes previous to clicking this link I was pondering on how I might be able to set my fortress up to run for nonspecific, nontrivial amounts of time with little or no oversight.

This would be an obvious solution, were success in this endeavor achieved.
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Ruhn

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2012, 01:22:11 pm »

A veyr interesting proposal, especially considerign just five minutes previous to clicking this link I was pondering on how I might be able to set my fortress up to run for nonspecific, nontrivial amounts of time with little or no oversight.

This would be an obvious solution, were success in this endeavor achieved.
I agree, being able to put a fortress on autopilot for a while would be nice when nothing exciting has happened lately.

For the discussion of training, I would like to cite the approached used by PS2 "Virtual Fighter 4" AI system.  In this game you could give feedback during the fight if your AI fighter was doing 'good' or 'bad' after every action.  It could be done during the fight, or afterwards during a replay.

If the VF4 appoach is applied to this DF project, we would be able to give feedback (using 'y' and 'n' ?) during gameplay to let the AI know if we are happy with the choices it is making.  These lessons could be stored and transmitted back to the developers for review and possible integration for the next release.  Or it could be kept local, so one player's decision to never build traps would not skew the overall desicion process on trap setup for everyone.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: An AI to play dwarf fortress. Has this been done? ==UPDATE!==
« Reply #89 on: October 30, 2012, 05:38:03 pm »

Could we see a copy of the AI as it currently exists, or is it a bit worse than a toddler plopped down at the keyboard?
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