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Author Topic: How Would One Reduce Inequality?  (Read 21699 times)

kaijyuu

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2012, 05:05:25 pm »

Parents shouldn't be able to send their child to a better school just because they can afford it, because this is inequality.
Hooray for satirical positions actually making sense.

Yes, they shouldn't be able to send their kid elsewhere JUST because they can afford it. Otherwise, those who couldn't afford it would be stuck in the "bad" school. Instead, we should give parents lots of options, make sure there are no "bad" schools in the first place, or both.
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Is it really fair that some children do piano study?  I don't think so.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

pisskop

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2012, 05:07:49 pm »

If you illegalized private schools than homeschooling would rise significantly.  And private schools include most noteable universities.

The educational system needs reworking to be sure, but "no child left behind" and rising society to the greatest common demoninator (i.e. the weakest) isn't going to fix a thing.
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Neonivek

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2012, 05:08:58 pm »

If you illegalized private schools than homeschooling would rise significantly.  And private schools include most noteable universities.

Simple make public schools manditory.

Make fund raising and funding schools outside of government support illegal as well.

Then adjust school funding based on size.

Of course you could always just chip everyone and adjust what they do and do not know manually.
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kaijyuu

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2012, 05:16:19 pm »

The educational system needs reworking to be sure, but "no child left behind" and rising society to the greatest common demoninator (i.e. the weakest) isn't going to fix a thing.
This is a fair concern, but completely irrelevant to the concept of removing parent's wealth out of education.

Private schools certainly do get in the way of that and I'm not sure how to fix that, short of pumping tons of money into public schools so they compete.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

UltraValican

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2012, 05:22:50 pm »

Schools.  Get rid of the private ones, or at least make it so they have to operate to the same budget per child as the surrounding area (this way it's actual competition rather than just "An alternative for rich people", and a school wishing to increase its budget per child would have to help out the surrounding area).
THIS. Put schools on equal footing. Make sure all the schools get allocated the same out ammount of resources and quality teachers.
Collage for everyone.
You DONT take away money from people because "they have to much", you gauge how much they have and tax them in relation with the rest of the populace. Letting the goverment do crazy shit like take away hard-earned fortunes from families so Richy-McRicherson can be on the same level as UristMccMigrant.


You really can't do anything not 1984isn past that, People are going to be lazy no matter what.
Even if you unjustly pillaged fortunes for the sake of stamping out that darn "privilege" or whateverthefuck tumblr crusaders are calling it. There's nothing stopping RichyMcRicherson or UristMcMigrant from hoping online and learning by themselves to get ahead. The government would need to make sure no-one has access to information unless its spoonfed to them, and no deviations of said ideas were allowed to exist. It would be a fucking nightmare.
Even in that distopian scenario, social stratification would occur.  Some people will just be better off/have an easier time than others
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Leafsnail

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2012, 05:26:50 pm »

"University" isn't included in my definition of school - I certainly don't think of myself as a schoolkid anymore.  Universities being partially privatized makes more sense as by then people have been able to demonstrate their academic abilities, and there are also credible mechanisms for allowing poorer students to pay the tuition fees (most of them involving government assistance).  In addition it's a much better environment for genuine competition since it's easier to move away to your desired university than it is to up sticks and move to find a nice primary school (unless you're rich).

I don't see a link between "no child left behind" and equality of education spending.  Private schools don't cater towards the best and brightest - they cater to the people who can afford it.  You can have an education system that adequately addresses the abilities of all students without creating a two-tier system based on parental wealth.

You DONT take away money from people because "they have to much", you gauge how much they have and tax them in relation with the rest of the populace. Letting the goverment do crazy shit like take away hard-earned fortunes from families so Richy-McRicherson can be on the same level as UristMccMigrant.


You really can't do anything not 1984isn past that, People are going to be lazy no matter what.
Even if you unjustly pillaged fortunes for the sake of stamping out that darn "privilege" or whateverthefuck tumblr crusaders are calling it. There's nothing stopping RichyMcRicherson or UristMcMigrant from hoping online and learning by themselves to get ahead. The government would need to make sure no-one has access to information unless its spoonfed to them, and no deviations of said ideas were allowed to exist. It would be a fucking nightmare.
Even in that distopian scenario, social stratification would occur.  Some people will just be better off/have an easier time than others
This is pretty bizarre and strawmanny.  Society could be a hell of a lot more equal than it is now (see: 1%) without it being anywhere near the ridiculous scenario you're describing.
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UltraValican

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2012, 05:33:34 pm »

Its supposed to be a bizarre scenario, I was describing an attempt at a totally equal society.
I honestly don't see how things could get more equal barring some loss of rights/redistribution of resources, but maybe I'm just stupid/cynical.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2012, 05:34:29 pm »

Private schools certainly do get in the way of that and I'm not sure how to fix that, short of pumping tons of money into public schools so they compete.
How about lowering the max amount they can charge for school fees? >_>

Leafsnail

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2012, 05:36:16 pm »

You don't think that, say, the top 1% could stand to lose a relatively small fraction of their wealth in order to massively improve conditions for those currently below the poverty line?
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kaijyuu

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2012, 05:37:04 pm »

Private schools certainly do get in the way of that and I'm not sure how to fix that, short of pumping tons of money into public schools so they compete.
How about lowering the max amount they can charge for school fees? >_>
For that to be effective, the "max amount" would have to be 0, so that those in poverty can go as well. As after all, they're the ones that need it most.

Plus I dunno if that sort of law would be enforceable.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Leafsnail

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2012, 05:39:43 pm »

Make it so the maximum amount of fees is equal to the amount the state schools in the area are paying per child.  That way schools can compete on the basis of efficiency rather than on pure purchasing power.  It seems relatively easy to enforce considering children tend to be on databases and stuff so it's hard to have backmarket super-elite schools.
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pisskop

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2012, 05:42:20 pm »

If private schools did that then they coulsnt afford to keep the retinue of (possibly) highly trained/specuialized staff.

Private schools (like religious ones) can provide things and educations required for specialized positions, some of which have traditionally taken a lifetime to learn.
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Leafsnail

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2012, 05:44:57 pm »

The highly trained and specialized staff that are all working at this one school that only serves rich people instead of being spread out over the area.

I guess "specialized" is an interesting word for "has rich parents", though.  I don't really support heavily religious (ie "You have to be of our religion to enter") schools either but that's for a completely different reason.
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kaijyuu

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2012, 05:49:56 pm »

Theology professors and the like would be limited to private schools though, unless you really want government funding to go toward stuff like that. And since I doubt outlawing religious classes would be a good idea either, we're kinda stuck.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

UltraValican

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Re: How Would One Reduce Inequality?
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2012, 05:51:18 pm »

You don't think that, say, the top 1% could stand to lose a relatively small fraction of their wealth in order to massively improve conditions for those currently below the poverty line?
That's just stating the obvious though.
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