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Seperate. It makes it more like traditional dwarf fortress, and helps to keep squads orginized better.

Keep together. Combat isn't the only focuse of the mod, and having it only one skill has several advantages of its own.

[Stirk]

You could make the transformation have no end, and just have a reverse of the action in the depot?

Ah, good idea. Though I will stick with this for the tank, to represent it breaking down and needing repair.

Well the tank depot is working fine. You do become a tank, though it does act kind of weird since it thinks you are an animal. The main point, being combat, you can do assuming the dwarf is in the military before it becomes a tank. I made it cost 3 bars of steel (To represent repairs and building materials), 1 capacitor (For energy needed in everything) and 1 petroleum (for fuel). It lasts 500000, which should be plenty of time to fight of a siege or ambush. Will probably need to be balanced later.


Well now that I think about it, it might be possible, but at the moment, I don't think animals can use the station necessary to do the reaction. I would have to fiddle around with the things a little, maybe making tank a caste of dwarves. 

[Thecard]

You could make the transformation have no end, and just have a reverse of the action in the depot?

Ah, good idea. Though I will stick with this for the tank, to represent it breaking down and needing repair.

Well the tank depot is working fine. You do become a tank, though it does act kind of weird since it thinks you are an animal. The main point, being combat, you can do assuming the dwarf is in the military before it becomes a tank. I made it cost 3 bars of steel (To represent repairs and building materials), 1 capacitor (For energy needed in everything) and 1 petroleum (for fuel). It lasts 500000, which should be plenty of time to fight of a siege or ambush. Will probably need to be balanced later.


Well now that I think about it, it might be possible, but at the moment, I don't think animals can use the station necessary to do the reaction. I would have to fiddle around with the things a little, maybe making tank a caste of dwarves.

Ooh, ooh!  You could give it a syndrome to turn into a "Damaged Tank!"  Then you have to take it to the depot for repairs (takes metal bars)! Or you could make it switch from "full tank" to "Three-quarter full tank" and so on.  Give the empty tank a really slow speed, because it's being pushed.  Also make it very vulnerable and unable to attack.  It has to go back to the depot to get refueled, which takes a full fuel can and leaves an empty fuel can.
Oh, and don't forget to remove any regeneration it has.  Tanks don't heal.  Also, the pain.  [NO_SLEEP] and [NO_EAT] and all that, you know.
Oh, and if you want to make tanks a caste, you should be able to make them never be born naturally, though some should spawn at the dawn of time.
Do these ideas help?  It's been a long time since I last modded.

[Stirk]

Ooh, ooh!  You could give it a syndrome to turn into a "Damaged Tank!"  Then you have to take it to the depot for repairs (takes metal bars)!

Might be possible, but I don't think I could do that. It would require "Tank" being a dwarf caste rather then an animal, and my goal for tank is having a basically animal that fights and does nothing else until the dwarf gets out. And I don't know how to do that when it did something like get hit, though I could do it on time.

Or you could make it switch from "full tank" to "Three-quarter full tank" and so on.  Give the empty tank a really slow speed, because it's being pushed.  Also make it very vulnerable and unable to attack.  It has to go back to the depot to get refueled, which takes a full fuel can and leaves an empty fuel can.

Ah good idea, I like the tank part. I could probably do that by making several creatures. But it does have some problems, namely transforming into a lower "fuel zone" would heal you completely, making it a good thing rather then a bad thing.

Oh, and don't forget to remove any regeneration it has.  Tanks don't heal.  Also, the pain.  [NO_SLEEP] and [NO_EAT] and all that, you know.

Of course. I did that when I first made the tanks a dozen upgrades ago.

Oh, and if you want to make tanks a caste, you should be able to make them never be born naturally, though some should spawn at the dawn of time.

Of course. It would be strange to give birth to a tank. Though it should be noted the animal tanks I already have male and female and give birth, mostly so they will actually be used rather then dieing out. Not that you will see them, considering they are goblin weapons.

Do these ideas help?  It's been a long time since I last modded.

Of course! I love your guy's ideas, they make my job much easier. Most of the issues I have are my own lack of modding experience and the limitations of dwarf fortress itself.

[Stirk]

Using my knew found knowledge of polymorphing and finding several spelling mistakes, I found out how to do something I tried doing with a different weapon and failed. Explosives, which I was having trouble with earlier, now turns what it hits into an "Ashpile", which is basically a creature made of ash that dies soon after you make it.

I had originally intended this for a "flame-thrower" style weapon to kill undead with, though I couldn't get the right balance and now decided to use it in rockets. Still need to get it to work on the tanks...

[Thecard]

You know what, this thread just made me want to play with the raws again.  If you don't hear from me in 3 days, send help.

[Stirk]

You know what, this thread just made me want to play with the raws again.  If you don't hear from me in 3 days, send help.

Glad to have inspired you.

I have decided against using the transformation thing- I just think it is a bit over powered, being able to kill even a Juggernaut in one hit is a little extreme. Ill turn it back into a weaker syndrome.

Balancing the rocket is HARD. One one hand, it is supposed to be a powerful weapon. On the other hand, it isn't supposed to one hit kill tanks and juggernauts and angels. In the end, I have decided on a potent cocktail of syndromes. It does a dozen things to the nerves of organics, pretty much melting the spine of goblin enemies. It has a 50% chance of impairing brain function, which effects tanks and juggernauts, but doesn't do much to them. It also has a 10% chance of turning it into an ash pile. When added to the slowing effect, and the fact that it only has a poor chance of hitting and activating in the first place, I think it is balanced ok, but it will need testing.

The other part of the explosives is the land mines, which will have the same explosives but almost grantee a hit. Good luck to whatever steps on that.

[Stirk]

Another new addition to make the game a little harder:The Helicopter. It is basically a flying tank that focuses on attacking rather then defense: A single hit to the propeller is enough to take to take it down, but it has twice as many ranged attacks (Rockets for heavy and machine gun rounds for light) and has less of a reload time, making it so it can fly while destroying it's enemies. And at the moment, it is gobby only!

[Thecard]

Another new addition to make the game a little harder:The Helicopter. It is basically a flying tank that focuses on attacking rather then defense: A single hit to the propeller is enough to take to take it down, but it has twice as many ranged attacks (Rockets for heavy and machine gun rounds for light) and has less of a reload time, making it so it can fly while destroying it's enemies. And at the moment, it is gobby only!

Damn.  We really need mounts back in the game!
If you get enough vehicles, you could make sieges basically all mounted.

You think of making something like a jeep, that is basically a really light tank?  Less punch, less armor, more speed maybe?
Or artillery, which moves at a snail's pace, but has powerful shots?
And I think it's possible to make a driver "jump out" but it may not work.  When making a reaction, you should be able to give it a flag that determines when it is used.  For instance, it's possible to make werewolves transform when they get hurt.  I don't remember what it is, but you may be able to get tanks to turn into gobbos when they take enough damage they would consider running.  Or when they would normally retreat.  That would make damaging helicopters really satisfying, when the gobbo falls out and gets damaged, allowing you to finish him off.
But that may be different from what you were planning to do.

[Stirk]

Damn.  We really need mounts back in the game!

Are they gone? I was kind of hoping the goblins would come riding in on a tank.

You think of making something like a jeep, that is basically a really light tank?  Less punch, less armor, more speed maybe?

Yep. I think I will get on it right now, actually.

Or artillery, which moves at a snail's pace, but has powerful shots?

It would be nice, but the limitations of the breath system mean that even my slade + acts as if it was wood against flesh, it doesn't seem to be able to kill them. I would have to find out some other thing to make their attacks stronger.

And I think it's possible to make a driver "jump out" but it may not work.  When making a reaction, you should be able to give it a flag that determines when it is used.  For instance, it's possible to make werewolves transform when they get hurt.  I don't remember what it is, but you may be able to get tanks to turn into gobbos when they take enough damage they would consider running.  Or when they would normally retreat.  That would make damaging helicopters really satisfying, when the gobbo falls out and gets damaged, allowing you to finish him off.

That would be interesting, though I don't know if it would work. The way the vehicles are set up right now, the "Driver" is basically the brain. The way their organs are, you can shoot up everything about them and they will still work, but if the brain is gone they die.

Glad to see we have not lost you.

[Stirk]

Well the jeep is done. It is basically a lower tier tank, with half the defenses and without the cannon attack.

It is going to be interesting to see how combat goes out in fortress mode with the vehicles. Interestingly, vehicles can't kill vehicles, until I can make the thing stronger like I want to. So until then, vehicles will mostly be used against infantry as cover. While they do have the advantage over infantry, infantry is the only thing that can kill them at the moment. So lets see what happens while I go play around with numbers to get things working.

Balancing is going to be difficult in the future. I don't want infantry to become irrelevant, but I don't want it to be over powered. Same for the vehicles. So I need your guy's feedback to know what is going on.

[Thecard]

Yeah, I meant for Dwarves.  Once Toady puts Dwarven mounts back in the game (at some point, probably not too soon) vehicles will make a lot more sense.  Also, could you make them shoot some kind of rock that explodes?  I'm sure it would be Dwarvenly unstable.
And yeah, I'm glad I'm still here.  Last time I dived into the raws, I didn't do anything else for five days. Except what was necessary, you know.  But contributing to the forum gives me something to keep me tied to life.

[Droid15243Z]

*Watches closely* 
Ideas (not sure whats possible):

Armor piercing rounds, explosive rounds, incinderary ammo, tracer rounds (emitts a little light material is a little hotter), IR goggles, parachute? Concision grenade, flashbang, smoke grenade, emp grenade, claymore/bouncing betty (immobil creature that explodes when enemies approach), sentry turret, uav (small flying creature with a high sight radius), assalt drone',emergency squad support (timed 1 use summon), gun attatchments (gun + item = modded gun (may take awhile to make all combinations)), riot shield,   camo armor/guns for flavor and variety, gas mask. To balance more advanced stuff you could make them require more materials/next tier workshop. Again I don't know whats possible, just dumping random ideas. Can you set how long it takes to make something or make it require a certain skill level? I'll try to think of some civ stuff. If you get the electricity thing in there lamps, tv, radio, running water and so on. Mabey you could make a workshop Electric Generator as a custom workshop then make electric parts there and craft that stuff some where else at least untill you make up a better way (did I explain that right?)
 
P.S. Typing on a phone is annoying and sorry for the wall of text. 

[Droid15243Z]

Tazers and their gun variety. You could add handhelds as toys and arcade cabinets/consoles as 1x1workshops to raise room value! But make it so you need a tv to gey dvd/bluray/console/cable and so forth and from those you can get thier remotes and accessories (may take alot of time/tweaking) Also their could be snack/drink dispensers. More foods/drinks could be added. You might have to make an item to represent currency for some of these (or can you already do that with default cash?) Fast food/restaurant workshops that use the currency item. More modern toys as well be it sports , board games or action figures. Well I should get some sleep! Hope some of these ideas help. I'd love to help as well as dip into modding but I just don't have enough time...

[Stirk]

Well just woke up after sleeping poorly, lets see if I can reply competently.

*Watches closely* 

Can't beat me. I am always watching.

Yeah, I meant for Dwarves.  Once Toady puts Dwarven mounts back in the game (at some point, probably not too soon) vehicles will make a lot more sense.  Also, could you make them shoot some kind of rock that explodes?  I'm sure it would be Dwarvenly unstable.
And yeah, I'm glad I'm still here.  Last time I dived into the raws, I didn't do anything else for five days. Except what was necessary, you know.  But contributing to the forum gives me something to keep me tied to life.

Huh. Didn't know that, but it would be interesting.

Armor piercing rounds, explosive rounds, incinderary ammo, tracer rounds (emitts a little light material is a little hotter)

Possible. I already have the format for explosives, and I know of several weapons that use different kinds of ammo. It would be interesting to see the advantages and disadvantages of each ammo, like the heavier armor piercing round being slower but heavier, or making the explosive rounds slower etc. Great idea.

IR goggles,

On the list, but not possible until next version.

parachute

I can think of a way to do this, and a parachute like effect is possible. But at the moment, only goblins have flying things and they rarely ride them. Maybe next version when they fix the flying glitch that makes it so you can't fly in fortress, until then my workaround wouldn't work for dwarves.

Concision grenade, flashbang, smoke grenade, emp grenade,

All technically possible, but like the other ammo you suggested they would probably have to be fired by a rocket launcher (probably a new one. Right now the only rocket launcher is the Armbrust, which is strictly an anti-tank weapon. I used it because the name means "crossbow", nice little bit of trivia. I also misspelled it in the raws, but nobody will notice)

Though it does bring the question "Why would you want to leave your enemies alive?"

claymore/bouncing betty (immobil creature that explodes when enemies approach)

We already have the anti-person mine, which is a little more generic. It is instead a trap component, that blows up when someone steps on it like the rockets do.

sentry turret, uav (small flying creature with a high sight radius), assalt drone

Possible. But in the next version, right now creatures can't fly in fortress mode.

emergency squad support (timed 1 use summon)

Don't know what you mean by this.

riot shield

Probably when I get back to armor. Shields are the only thing that can block anything with the high velocities we are working with.

gun attatchments (gun + item = modded gun (may take awhile to make all combinations))

Possible....But it would take an obscene amount of time to make all the combinations. Maybe at another point in time when I have an obscene amount of free time again.

camo armor/guns for flavor and variety,

Possible, once again once I get back on the armor. Until then you will have to deal with normal vanilla Kevlar breastplates and shields. Tanks are probably better armor at the moment, anyway.

gas mask.

Interesting. Maybe possible (Gives a syndrome that temporarily gives the dwarf [NOBREATH]? That would make it immune to inhaled syndromes for a while). But I wont need it until I get the bombers to the goblins.

To balance more advanced stuff you could make them require more materials/next tier workshop.

A good balancing thing. Expensive and strong or cheap and weak? Though what I give to the goblins won't have that weakness...

Can you set how long it takes to make something or make it require a certain skill level?

Probably. Beyond my skill. Still only having done this for less then a month.

I'll try to think of some civ stuff. If you get the electricity thing in there lamps, tv, radio, running water and so on. Mabey you could make a workshop Electric Generator as a custom workshop then make electric parts there and craft that stuff some where else at least untill you make up a better way (did I explain that right?)

Like I said, civilian stuff is the hard part.

I got electricity up, though I would have to find a purpose for lamps, tv, radios, and running water. I have a workshop that uses petroleum to make capacitors (Which carry electricity). I could make different workshops (Like TV factory) to make parts if necessary.

P.S. Typing on a phone is annoying and sorry for the wall of text. 

Walls of text are good. They bump my post and give me ideas.

Tazers and their gun variety.

Possible. But why would you not want to kill something? Syndromes can give pain and knock things out real easily.

ou could add handhelds as toys and arcade cabinets/consoles as 1x1workshops to raise room value!

That was the original intent of the computer. Then I figured out I have no clue how to do this. I will ask someone and see if this is possible...

But make it so you need a tv to gey dvd/bluray/console/cable and so forth and from those you can get thier remotes and accessories (may take alot of time/tweaking)

Well if I already have a workshop, making toys that do things and get remade is possible. For example, I could have the TV take one DVD player and in the reaction give a DVD player as a result, not using up the player as a result. But I would have to make it do something...

I know a mod that has an artifact case that raises in value the more artifacts you use, at least I think that is what it does, if that is what you are getting at.

Also their could be snack/drink dispensers. More foods/drinks could be added

You would have to put snacks in first. Kind of defeats the point of it? Though I have thought about adding new food, like fastfood.

You might have to make an item to represent currency for some of these (or can you already do that with default cash?)

I could technically do that with existing cash, but then one must wonder where the food comes from...

More modern toys as well be it sports , board games or action figures. Well I should get some sleep! Hope some of these ideas help. I'd love to help as well as dip into modding but I just don't have enough time...

The toys would be easy to add, and I might do that later.

Thanks for the ideas! Lot of em here.

[TheCoolSideofthePIllow]

I have started work on the M16...AK model next (Cheaper and easier to build, but has less accuracy and power).

If you're going for realism, the AK is a bit more accurate and has a helluva lot more power than an M16; but it has pretty high recoil and pretty much never beaks.