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Author Topic: Foreign weapons compared to native?  (Read 10448 times)

nanomage

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Re: Foreign weapons compared to native?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 10:15:41 am »

Quote
Yeah, but actually all dwaves, not most. Real dwarf size is ignored when making checks, the average size in raws is the only thing that matters.

Interesting, if true.
If wiki research can be trusted, not true.
The wiki research refers to a forum post dated June 07, 2012, 08:17:46 pm by Sutremaine
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101379.msg3029579#msg3029579

In this thread, started on June 24, 2012,
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=112093.0
testing by Sutremaine shows that dwarves don't equip weapons with [TWO-HANDED] larger than their size in the raws (with the correction that the last digital symbol is truncated in the code)

I believe wiki refers to the wrong data.


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Trif

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Re: Foreign weapons compared to native?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 12:04:24 pm »

Quote
Yeah, but actually all dwaves, not most. Real dwarf size is ignored when making checks, the average size in raws is the only thing that matters.

Interesting, if true.
If wiki research can be trusted, not true.
The wiki research refers to a forum post dated June 07, 2012, 08:17:46 pm by Sutremaine
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=101379.msg3029579#msg3029579

In this thread, started on June 24, 2012,
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=112093.0
testing by Sutremaine shows that dwarves don't equip weapons with [TWO-HANDED] larger than their size in the raws (with the correction that the last digital symbol is truncated in the code)

I believe wiki refers to the wrong data.
Huh. Apparently, there's even a bug report about it. Thanks for clarifying.
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Quote from: Toady One
I wonder if the game has become odd.

Sutremaine

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Re: Foreign weapons compared to native?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2012, 12:05:18 pm »

The original calculations were done on the assumption that the 'minimum size' token worked as it should, and that my inability to find a dwarf large enough to wield one was simply bad luck. When a version of DT rolled around that could read dwarf sizes, I used that to determine which dwarves should have been able to wield halberds and then tried to equip them with said halberds. When that failed I did some more investigation, and found that while 1H/2H reads the individual's size, wieldable/unwieldable reads the race (caste?) size.

I've never significantly edited the weapon page on the wiki. I probably should, but at this point it would be a really big job.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Bognor

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Re: Foreign weapons compared to native?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2012, 09:50:32 pm »

Ok, well I've added a disclaimer to the wiki - see here.  I've left a small question you might be able to answer, Sutremaine  :)
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Sutremaine

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Re: Foreign weapons compared to native?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2012, 10:39:30 pm »

Got a slightly odd result on that. The squad I picked to test out the long swords should have had 6 dwarves unable to wield (but they will anyway), 2 dwarves wielding 2H, and 2 wielding 1H. Instead, all but one dwarf is wielding 2H, and the one dwarf who is holding the sword correctly is slightly smaller than the one who should be (58140 vs. 59994).

But this fortress may not be the best test (it was merely convenient, being established and modded so that dwarves could make long swords). For some reason I skewed the height and broadness modifiers so that small dwarves were really small, and this has given me a fortress in which 33 of 35 adults are smaller than the dwarven average. This does not in any way stop them from wielding pikes, even that one dwarf who's small enough that she shouldn't be able to wield a pick or battle axe.
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I am trying to make chickens lay bees as eggs. So far it only produces a single "Tame Small Creature" when a hen lays bees.
Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

taptap

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Re: Foreign weapons compared to native?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2012, 11:07:56 am »

In fortress mode: How do quality levels affect this? It is pretty unlikely to get whips, morningstars, flails etc. with significant quality levels - while you can mass-produce masterwork axes, spears, hammers etc. with a good weaponsmith.

knutor

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Re: Foreign weapons compared to native?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2012, 11:49:23 am »

If you turn on the trade fella in DFhack, ya can order up some whips to be traded in next caravan.  Unfortunately, tho we cannot turn on masks. Ugg.
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AutomataKittay

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Re: Foreign weapons compared to native?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2012, 01:36:19 pm »

In fortress mode: How do quality levels affect this? It is pretty unlikely to get whips, morningstars, flails etc. with significant quality levels - while you can mass-produce masterwork axes, spears, hammers etc. with a good weaponsmith.

I believe improve sharpness and accuracy of usage, and with armor, improve deflection rate.

If you want the next best thing to whip and flails, but dwarven-made, there're picks.
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javierpwn

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Re: Foreign weapons compared to native?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2012, 02:04:16 am »

Hammers are pretty good in my experience,had w single dwarf go into battle against 200 goblins, even some with crossbows,smashed all their heads and bodily organs into a bloody pulp onto a bloody grassland.(Granted he was legendary+5 everything, but that is another story)
It also it surprising when warhammers lop off limbs.
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