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Author Topic: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game  (Read 3007 times)

Imp

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2013, 06:18:17 pm »

Lets go with Mars's milestone.  It sounds easier and less intensive than Hender's hope; rain forests are not especially hard to destablize especially when there are no animals also inside them.  Failing this, I'd say lets look for other work as Hender's hope is seriously a lot of work that could well take human generations to accomplish.

For Mars's milestone, a suggested start:

Spraying the area with an engineered bacteria, highly succeptable to three specific antibiotics which are rapidly (within a week) completely degraded by ultraviolet light (lets call these antibiotics Anatrin, Bacaricillin, and Treglin).  This bacteria strain invades plant cells and consumes cellulose, producing mild toxins that render the cells more sensitive to damage from UV light.  The loss of their cell walls (primarily made of cellulous) will make the plant cells more permeable to UV light, and the mild toxins will increase the damage caused by this radiation.  Combined with how the loss of cell walls will also cause structural and permeability problems for every affected plant cell, and should rapidly cause all of the current plant matter to become a soft and naturally rapidly decomposing slurry of organic matter, where before had been inpenetrable multi-layered growth.

When this stage is done, the sludge will need to be sprayed with a copious quantity of those three antibiotics.  The goal is to provide as completely lethal a challenge to the bacteria as the bacteria provided to the plants; so that any mutated bacteria which happened to gain resistance to one or even two of the antibiotics probably did not also become resistant to the third.  By hitting the area with multiple types of high level but specific lethal challenges, we greatly increase the odds of exterminating the no longer desired species without causing additional undesired effects.
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wolfchild

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2013, 06:19:58 pm »

Lets go with Mars's milestone.  It sounds easier and less intensive than Hender's hope; rain forests are not especially hard to destablize especially when there are no animals also inside them.  Failing this, I'd say lets look for other work as Hender's hope is seriously a lot of work that could well take human generations to accomplish.

For Mars's milestone, a suggested start:

Spraying the area with an engineered bacteria, highly succeptable to three specific antibiotics which are rapidly (within a week) completely degraded by ultraviolet light (lets call these antibiotics Anatrin, Bacaricillin, and Treglin).  This bacteria strain invades plant cells and consumes cellulose, producing mild toxins that render the cells more sensitive to damage from UV light.  The loss of their cell walls (primarily made of cellulous) will make the plant cells more permeable to UV light, and the mild toxins will increase the damage caused by this radiation.  Combined with how the loss of cell walls will also cause structural and permeability problems for every affected plant cell, and should rapidly cause all of the current plant matter to become a soft and naturally rapidly decomposing slurry of organic matter, where before had been inpenetrable multi-layered growth.

When this stage is done, the sludge will need to be sprayed with a copious quantity of those three antibiotics.  The goal is to provide as completely lethal a challenge to the bacteria as the bacteria provided to the plants; so that any mutated bacteria which happened to gain resistance to one or even two of the antibiotics probably did not also become resistant to the third.  By hitting the area with multiple types of high level but specific lethal challenges, we greatly increase the odds of exterminating the no longer desired species without causing additional undesired effects.

Kinda agree with imp here
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Eotyrannus

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2013, 06:32:29 pm »

You apply for a job, and after a few weeks, Mrs. Mars responds. We've managed to get the job! We inquire into the pony's speech ability, and she responds that they should just have adorable versions of normal horse sounds, as teaching them to speak would be too much hassle.

You suggest using a bacterial attack to turn the vegitation to mush, before a three-pronged antibiotic bath will clear the way for our own species. She accepts the idea, and after a few more week's work, the area is cleared. Bacterial agents are usually fairly easy to engineer.

Now that the area is clear, what are we going to do in regards to vegetation and landscaping? Our employer recommended having various adorable small critters, especially adorable snails. Other things include the pastel green plants, and the clear blue water. She says that the commission is for her four-year-old daughter, who would have rather rough handling and would be liable to step on smaller animals.
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2013, 07:05:17 pm »

On the topic of small critters, some sort of non-burrowing creature, as burrows could be a danger to the ponies' hooves. A squirrel-like creature, but very furry, to enhance cuteness. The fur will likely have to be non-insulating, so the creature can stay during the day, as there are few dark cool places for it to cool off.

Blue water is very easy, a blue, non-photosynthesising algae, possibly eating the excrement of the other aquatic organisms. Or an algae that excretes something that turns the water blue.

A tall green grass would be better than a short groundcover, as the height will give our small critters a shelter and the ponies ample amounts of food.

Does she have any preference on trees? Because it would be very simple to have the lizards eat fallen fruit. We don't want them to be predators, because this planet is for a 4 year old.

Grek

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2013, 07:28:15 pm »

Pastel green plants is fairly straight-forward. We want a gene that introduces an edible white pigment into the cellulose. White pigment plus green chlorophyll means pale green plants. Simple. My initial thoughts were to just increase the tocopherol (Vitamin E) production in the plants, since that's an edible white pigment, but that might result in hypervitaminosis if her daughter gets it in her head to eat the plants. Some other pigment would probably be better.

For landscaping, I recommend an equal mix of white clover and a taller grass, both of which have been modified with the pastel colour gene. We also want fruit trees (especially apples!) some brush, reeds by the water and other plants.

The client has specifically requested giant adorable snails, so we should look into ordering some to tinker with. Birds are a must. We'll also want something that the lizard can eat. Cavies? Fish? I suppose it depends on what we base this dragon on.
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Origami_Psycho

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2013, 09:36:01 pm »

We need a bear.  But not any bear, we need Yogi Bear.
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2013, 10:00:39 pm »

The client has specifically requested giant adorable snails, so we should look into ordering some to tinker with.
Since 'Adorable' is almost impossible in real snails, we should start with a giant snail. The East African land snail, or giant African land snail. Its currently eating Florida's stucco and is on the list of the top 100 invasive species, so I think that it spreads fast. Make its eyes big, and it's shell multi-colored. That's cute, right?
Birds are a must.
Maybe a sparrow with a high mutation rate in it's coloration genes?
We'll also want something that the lizard can eat. Cavies? Fish? I suppose it depends on what we base this dragon on.
I'm worried about making it carnivorous, as this planet is for a 4 year old.

Edit: Oops. Broken link.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 01:20:08 am by My Name is Immaterial »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2013, 10:05:46 pm »

Base the lizard on an iguana or other herbivorous lizard.
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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2013, 10:36:10 pm »

PTW
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Imp

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2013, 12:28:09 am »

Pastel green plants is fairly straight-forward. We want a gene that introduces an edible white pigment into the cellulose. White pigment plus green chlorophyll means pale green plants. Simple. My initial thoughts were to just increase the tocopherol (Vitamin E) production in the plants, since that's an edible white pigment, but that might result in hypervitaminosis if her daughter gets it in her head to eat the plants. Some other pigment would probably be better.

Humans cannot digest cellulose unless they have undergone genetic engineering (or harbor gut bacteria that are not normally ever found in humans), so if we do use vitamin E in a fashion that is hyper-expressed and trapped in a cellulose matrix, her daughter should be pretty safe from vitamin E if she starts eating the plants.  Horses and quite a few other creatures can digest cellulose though (thanks to symbiotic gut bacteria), so might be a good idea to stay away from vast amounts of biologically active white pigment which could poison any of the species which are likely to eat it.

Additionally, Vitamin E is possibly one of the harder ways to achieve our coloration goal.  Vitamin E consists of fat soluble, non-polar molecules, which is likely to make trapping large quantities of it in cellulose (which is formed of long interconnected chains of polar molecules) really hard - and might seriously impact the structural capacity and permeability of that cellulose for the plant trying to grow and thrive with this change.  In general, without some 'special help', polar molecules tend to glob up with other polar molecules (like fats) and non-polar molecules tend to stick with other non-polar ones.

Instead, what about one of the types of pigments that makes some types of plant petals white?  I'm thinking best might be one or more of the many types of anthoxanthins.  Might take some testing to find a great coloration mix, but these pigments as a class are considered to be nontoxic.  One possible upside, or downside, is that the color of various anthoxanthins are highly sensitive to pH and metallic ions.  We could likely get one or more strains of grass which appears pastel under typical growing conditions, but might be a lot more white or green (or yellow, or even slightly blue or red) if growing conditions in a part of the park started to change a lot.

We could include a cause in our contract with addresses what Mrs. Mars should do if her pastel grass starts to change colors, but this would be an environmental, gardener level type of fix.
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Imp

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2013, 12:41:51 am »

Our employer recommended having various adorable small critters, especially adorable snails. Other things include the pastel green plants, and the clear blue water. She says that the commission is for her four-year-old daughter, who would have rather rough handling and would be liable to step on smaller animals.

Sadness, that Mrs. Mars is adding to her commission - unless of course, she understands that this also adds to the price.

However, adorable snails are easy enough; some existed into the 21st century on Earth.  The Polymita snail of Cuba was widely considered the 'queen of land snails' and the most beautiful snail in the world.  Their shells typically were a golden color, with ornate streaks of other colors, though their coloration varied greatly and very blue, red, and white specimens were frequently seen.  Their flesh was usually a deep blue color, slightly translucent.  Not as beautiful as their shells, but quite pretty for a snail none-the-less.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymita_picta
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/cuba-the-accidental-eden/photos-snails-of-cuba/5788/

These snails were so pretty that they became extinct in the wild by the early 2070's primarily because of poaching for shells to use in making jewelry.  A rarity, most of the species exterminated around that time died primarily from habitat loss.

Happily both zoos and the then recently-formed gene banks preserved these species for future times.  So not much genegeneering needed for this one.   But I still say we up the price, because this wasn't part of our original contract.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 12:43:50 am by Imp »
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2013, 01:26:08 am »

While they are pretty, are they adorable? Almost, but I think tweaking them to be more watercolor-esque would be better.

Also, about the whole adding to the commission thing. If we tell her aggressively, then we stand a good chance of a bad recommendation. I vote we simply include it in final bill, with the price hike. If she asks, we apologize, and tell her that we thought she understood a late addition would raise the price.

Imp

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2013, 01:33:12 am »

A cyan pony, a purple unicorn, a black pegasus, a green unicorn and a pink dragon are all necessary, though in what numbers are by your choice.


While this request may sound ludicrous, most of it is not, depending on how flexible we and Mrs. Mars is willing to be with the definition of dragon, unicorn... and especially pegasus.  In fact, we do not need much in the way of genengineering to get the first two, even in their desired colors.

That pegasus though, it's going to require a major redesign.  In fact, I strongly suggest that everything else be real and placed as living animals within this 'paradise', however that the pegasus be restricted to non-living technology.  Holograms for viewing black pegasi in flight; animatronics for black pegasi which can be touched and seen up close.

Here are possibly ideal foundation species to shape into the desired creatures -

Pink dragons:

21st century Earth had naturally occuring large pink iguanas.  Some, like the marine iguana, were only partially pink in males during the breeding season.

http://www.arkive.org/galapagos-marine-iguana/amblyrhynchus-cristatus/image-G8114.html

Others, like the pink iguana, were pink year round for both genders.  And conveniently didn't need to spend much of their lives underwater.

http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/this-sneaky-pink-iguana-evaded-charles-darwins-attention.html

Any desired increase in draconic traits can be worked on from one of these bases.


unicorns:

If a spiral horn is desired, blackbuck. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbuck

If a straight horn is desired, Oryx.  http://www.awf.org/wildlife-conservation/oryx

Any horned species could be manipulated.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBesVO_3iQk

A surgical answer would be the simplest.  A horned species, possibly altered through breeding or more direct genetic alteration to make it more equine and less antelope-like or goat-like, would soon after birth have the horn buds removed.  One horn could be turned (so the horn grows with a backwards curve, rather than a sideways curve natural to most species) and grafted to the center of the animal's head rather than the sides where it had been harvested from.  After a fairly short time for healing, the creature would appear to be a natural single-horned animal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBesVO_3iQk

If this is absolutely unacceptable, then some work could be done to determine what genetic controls exist for the placement and spacing of the cells fated to become horns.  With rather a lot of trial and error, these controls can be identified and manipulated to produce 'natural', from birth single horns with the desired curve, spiralness, and shape.  The problem is the generation times.  This sort of trial and error work is best done with bacteria, with twenty minute generations; to make this solution workable in horses, goats, or antelope would require probable hundreds to thousands of their generations for perfect control.

Teal, purple, and green furred mammals

Color is actually less challenging than the placement and number of horns, as animal pigments exist in all the requested colors, especially in birds.

For teal, perhaps the racket-tailed roller  http://www.tanzaniabirds.net/African_birds/roller_racket-tailed/rtr.htm

For purple, perhaps one of the species of lamprotornis, maybe the 'purple starling'.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamprotornis 

For green, perhaps the lesser green broadbill  http://www.lpzoo.org/animals/factsheet/lesser-green-broadbill

The genes controling the pigment would need to be isolated, and then placed with specific promotors for hair formation already existing within the goat, antelope, or horse species used to form our 'unicorn' stock to allow the proteins that make the colors to appear in the fur.  This is a natural process we would 'borrow' to make the fur appear as we wish; we would 'knock out' the existing pigments that might mask the color we want to show, and we would 'knock in' the sequences for the colors we wanted instead.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 01:34:49 am by Imp »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Lords of the Genes: A genetics suggestion game
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2013, 03:24:53 am »

Also, instead of touching on the genetics of the animals, we can just modify some bacteria/ algae and use them as biological permanent paint. Since all the animals will likely be infertile as a safeguard against genetic mutations going awry. (Don't want 2 animals of same species but with different modifications to mix), it won't be noticeable.

By the time the animals start dieing, the child should be grown-up.

Though I suppose we can include telomere regeneration and other anti-aging tricks, for a price.
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