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Author Topic: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework  (Read 3515 times)

Zucchini

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Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« on: November 16, 2012, 06:38:14 pm »

Alright.  Searched the suggestions forum for all instances of the word "sanity" and haven't found any on-point, so I have one that might be a nice, procedural solution for dwarven mental health that is flexible and simpler than, say, a whole range of specific insanities/dysfunctions.

In the Unknown Armies pen-and-paper RPG rulebook, there is a gem of a sanity/insanity system that, supposedly, is similar to, but more powerful and flexible to Call of Cthulhu's (from what I've read of people's comments; I haven't read the CoC rulebook, myself).

This is how it runs down. I'm going to explain it in terms of Unknown Armies's game mechanics for simplicity, but obviously Toady could translate it any way he sees fit.

The system is based on five categories of mental stress: Violence, Unnatural (could also be called sense of reality), Helplessness, Isolation and Self.  In order to keep this post from becoming a multi-tile Wall of Text, I'm not going to go into definitions for these, but I'd be happy to explain if anyone's curious.

In each one of these you, have two meters: Hardened and Failed.

Hardened ranges from 0 to 10 "notches", while Failed ranges from 0 to 5.

Any given stressful experience affects one or more Stresses, and (in the Unknown Armies system) has a difficulty category of 1 to 10.  The idea is that the character, if he is not sufficiently hardened, has to make a sanity check against his Mind stat to see how he deals with it.  If he succeeds, he gains a rank of being Hardened toward that Stress.  If he fails, he puts a notch in the Failed meter toward that Stress.

Hardened means he coped, though at some cost to his humanity (dwarfity), and Failed means he did not cope, and is now psychologically damaged as a result.

Example: So, say, Urist McInnocent, who has only two ranks of Hardened in Violence, sees someone killed for the first time in his life.  Seeing someone killed is, say, a difficulty-3 Violence Stress check.  He has to make a check against his Mind stat.

If he succeeds, yay, he now has another rank in Hardened, for a total of 3, and now he'll shrug off difficulty-3 Stress checks without having to make a Mind check. If he fails, he puts a notch in the Failed meter, with consequences we'll examine shortly.

Now, though he now laughs at Violence stresses of difficulty 3 or below, a difficulty-4 or higher stress will still require a Mind check. We're upping the sanity ante. Once a character has reached 10 ranks of Hardened in a given Stress, he is now "so jaded and blase" about it that he is impervious to that Stress.

So, a dwarf becoming Hardened, just like a human becoming so, has very important and positive effects on his ability to survive in his environment. Of course, we are all probably aware of the negative effects of someone being Hardened to something: they become callous.

And, as a matter of fact, the UA system accounts for this. To quote the author:

This is not a good thing.  Mental stress makes us vulnerable.  But it also makes us human.  If you fill in too many hardened marks, you become so completely callous that you are unable to feel fear at all. That's because you are now cut off from a broad range of emotional experiences that everyone else shares. You're 'hardened' all right: hardened into an emotional fortress[], completely isolated, unable to make a fundamental connection with other human beings.  You're a sociopath.

If you get ten ranks of Hardened in two or more Stresses, or if your total of Hardened ranks exceeds 35, you become a sociopath. In UA game terms, you become disconnected from your passions (specific Noble, Rage and Fear passions), which within that system allow you to do extroardinary feats if the situation triggers them, and certain types of mages lose their empathic connection to the source of their magic.

Now, Failed marks are much worse. If a Stress check is failed, the unfortunate sot gets to choose one of three responses: panic (gibbering and freaking out), paralysis (freezing up like a well-lit deer, not literal paralysis), or frenzy (going batshit crazy and attacking the source of the stress).  The response lasts until the fear source is gone, but the character immune to other Stresses until it's gone as well, since he's too whacked to process them.

If a character acquires 5 notches in the Failed meter, he becomes insane with regard to that Stress, and a little bit in general.  He picks up a tic, some sort of mental aberration.  And any time he faces that Stress again, he gets no Mind check.  He just goes straight to panic, paralysis or frenzy.  Do not pass Go, do not collect your medication.

The tic/mental aberration can take the form of a phobia, a trauma bond (i.e., associating some incidental thing connected to the event with it, as in the classic case of a PTSD war veteran triggering at the sound of a wine cork popping), flashbacks, blackouts/fugue states, addictive behaviors, philia/obsession, delusions, and probably other things.  This stuff could be a lot of Fun.

The game also does allow for psychological first-aid and long-term mental health, so that counseling can eliminate notches from either meters.

The UA rulebook goes on in considerable (and enjoyable, well-written) detail about the different Stresses, with examples of different difficulty levels of checks and what they mean in real-world terms. It also gives descriptions of different levels in the Hardened and Failed meters in each Stress, likewise with real-world meanings.

Anyway, that's the basic rundown, drawn from pages 64-71 of the UA rulebook.

As you can see, it's a sanity system not dependent on a laundry list of pathologies, but rather on the source material -- the different areas of trauma handled by the brain.  This sort of system would allow for a procedural, more nuanced treatment of mental issues in DF (with lots of comical potential, I'm sure; Urist McInnocent sees his buddy raised as a zombie next to his pet cat, and trauma-bonds the Unnatural failed stress check he makes to the cat; now his pet cat is a trigger and he occasionally flees, eventually one day going berzerk and killing it).

It's really fascinating reading, actually.  Greg Stolze and John Tynes, the authors, either know their shit off-hand or did some serious research.  The chapter is great reading on its own, but I'm not here to pimp it.  I think, though, you definitely might find it a great source to check out, Toady.

[Note: This is serious fucking subject matter. As much as I've been humorous or casual with this, apologies and respect to people who are facing PTSD from war experiences or other serious life traumas. None of this is intended to make light of that or the people who genuinely suffer from them.]
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Deimos56

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2012, 11:43:31 pm »

[Note: This is serious fucking subject matter. As much as I've been humorous or casual with this, apologies and respect to people who are facing PTSD from war experiences or other serious life traumas. None of this is intended to make light of that or the people who genuinely suffer from them.]
This forum has discussed how to farm mermaids for their organs in the past, so I am uncertain that this was necessary, but I'm sure it's appreciated regardless.

Personally, I kind of like the idea of sanity doing something other than being a binary switch between 'happy dwarf' and 'sui/genocidal dwarf'.
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Jetman123

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2012, 05:11:01 am »

I very much like this system on principle, to say nothing of execution. It would be really neat if we could adapt some form of this, with gradual unhappiness/death/stressors/supernatural effects could cause dwarves to slowly lose their minds or turn sociopathic. Seeing too much death should result in fell moods and the like. Or you could have a fog that causes people to get PTSD, or a mage inflicts all the dwarves but the most hardened in your military with terror, so as his pets attack your military must fight them off with civilians milling around in a panic, blocking your marksdwarves' shots. (If they're callous enough, they might not even care as they shoot into the mob.)
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Funk

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 02:17:18 pm »

you do know that some players publicy kill a few dwarfs to mentaly harden the rest?
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Revanchist

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 02:19:39 pm »

I would say that, as a framework, the described system could be very helpful. It should certainly be considered at least.
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Zucchini

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2012, 06:08:25 pm »

I thought, to highlight the system a bit better, I'd give an example of one of the Stress areas, Helplessness. The following is an excerpt from the book, p. 66.

Eh, I suppose I should have some minor warning: I make no promises that this will not hit a bit too close to home...  this stuff does that. I thrive on this kind of thing, but you might not...  And I do have probably more notches, of both kinds, than I should in this category...   :o



THE HELPLESSNESS STRESS

A sense of control is crucial for feelings of safety, even if it's completely unmerited. When you have been challenged by helplessness, you can lose your ability to gauge how "in control" of a situation you are: you may feel powerless when the situation is not completely lost, or you may ignore real impediments from a misplaced sense of capability.

SAMPLE HELPLESSNESS CHECKS

  • Unintentionally humiliate yourself in public.
  • Get fired from a job you love.
  • Fail at something when it's *imperative* that you succeed.
  • Get dumped into a pit of maggots.
  • Spend a month in jail.
  • Watch a videotape of your spouse committing adultery.
  • Be placed in a situation where you have to either saw off one of your limbs or die.
  • Watch someone you love die.
  • Watch someone you love die becaue you tried to save them and failed.
  • Be possessed, yet conscious, as your body commits unspeakable acts against your will.

FAILED HELPLESSNESS NOTCHES
  • At this level you're fairly normal. Perhaps you're a little finicky or meticulous, trying to eliminate the possibility of something going wrong.
  • You have a tendency to get unreasonably nervous and pessimistic when small things go wrong. You may be irritated if a bus is just a few minutes late, or if your computer freezes up.
  • You have an intense dislike for surprises, even good ones. They remind you of the essentially unpredictable nature of reality, and that scares and annoys you.
  • You find it very difficult to trust anything. Your friends, your own abilities, even your memories could be false, waiting to betray you. You have a tendency toward obsessive-compulsive behaviors such as checking the door to your house two or three (or more) times every night to make absolutely certain it's locked. You attempt to be prepared for every eventuality.

HARDENED HELPLESSNESS NOTCHES
  • 1-3: You don't have any major behavior or attitude shifts yet, just minor things. You tend to be pessimistic or fatalistic, perhaps.
  • 4-6: Your fatalism has increased: When things go wrong in a big, bad way, or when trouble comes from a completely unexpected or unlikely source, you handle it with a remarkable lack of affect. (This is not necessarily incongruent with the behaviors of 2+ failed notches; it's perfectly possible to be freakishly calm about big things and freakishly upset about little things.)
  • 7-9: You have a boundless faith in the ability of chaos to screw you over. You can easily believe that even the most suspicious of mishaps is simple random chance. ("So my brake cable snapped and my gas pedal got stuck down to the floor. What makes you think someone tinkered with my car? Shit happens.")
  • 10: The distinction between "intentional" and "accidental" is pretty much lost on you. Maybe you believe that everything is completely predestined, or maybe you believe that everything in the world happens due to chance. The one thing you find hard to swallow is the idea that we are the captains of our fates.



While the most obviously-applicable and easily-imaginable stress is the Violence stress, I'm sure we could imagine situations in which this meter, and the others -- Self, Isolation, Unnatural -- could play out in interesting game terms for dwarves.

I think it really does provide a nice "unified theory," sufficient for plausible game modeling, of the psychological side of things, I think.
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Zucchini

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2012, 06:13:22 pm »

you do know that some players publicy kill a few dwarfs to mentaly harden the rest?

That is positively hilarious horrible!

I've never thought of that!  I mean I would never.
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tyrannus007

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2012, 07:34:36 pm »

you do know that some players publicy kill a few dwarfs to mentaly harden the rest?
I like this system, because doing something gamey like that will have lots of unintended consequences. It might make your dwarves more prone to violence, not less.

What about children? They should be more susceptible to this sort of thing. It might encourage players to take better care of them, so they don't grow up to become Urist McSerialKiller.
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NAV

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2012, 01:48:07 am »

I really like this system.
whether the dwarf fails or passes the check should be dependent on its willpower stat (and maybe others as well).
It should also tie into strange moods, with the less sane dwarves more likely to get moods, and failing a mood giving a significant drop in sanity.
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weenog

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2012, 02:22:23 am »

Reassigning useless professional migrants into totally new career tracks might have a chance to hurt Self every time they take a job in the new career, at least until the skills level out.

Damn it Urist, I'm a bone doctor, not a blacksmith.
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Revanchist

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2012, 01:15:14 pm »

So the dwarves demand individuality or they rebel, basically? I think that's quite funny honestly. Not a bad suggestion.
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Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope... Love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticule, and together, achieving a singular purpose against statistically long odds."

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy.

Deimos56

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2012, 12:10:19 am »

Reassigning useless professional migrants into totally new career tracks might have a chance to hurt Self every time they take a job in the new career, at least until the skills level out.

Damn it Urist, I'm a bone doctor, not a blacksmith.
But then what will we do with all the cheese makers, soapers, fish dissectors, and occasional architect? They're rather redundant after the first one or two as it currently stands...

If we can get more... I dunno, worthwhileness from currently useless abilities, I'd be all for it, though.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 12:13:03 am by Deimos56 »
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weenog

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 02:09:51 am »

Reassigning useless professional migrants into totally new career tracks might have a chance to hurt Self every time they take a job in the new career, at least until the skills level out.

Damn it Urist, I'm a bone doctor, not a blacksmith.
But then what will we do with all the cheese makers, soapers, fish dissectors, and occasional architect? They're rather redundant after the first one or two as it currently stands...

If we can get more... I dunno, worthwhileness from currently useless abilities, I'd be all for it, though.

Risk insanity, put them to work as-is, or ease them into their new professions gradually.  Insanity sounds the most fun.
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C27

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 02:16:38 am »

This all sounds like a ton of fun. I'm all for it.  :D
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Zucchini

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Re: Sanity/Insanity/Mental Health framework
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 02:59:50 pm »

Well, things like that wouldn't be nearly so dramatic, and you wouldn't be risking insanity so much as some dissonance. The case of a dwarf having to switch profession would probably challenge either or both Self and Helplessness, and play out something like thus under UA's system:

To be confronted with proof that your self-image is correct is an example of a level-2 Self stress. To secretly gratify an urge that is unacceptable to your upbringing or background is level-3. To lie to conceal an aspect of your personality from a close friend or loved one who trusts you implicitly is level-4.  And to decide not to act on an impulse from your Noble stimulus (your strongest, most deeply-psychologically-based conviction as to what is right) is level-5.

I'm guessing, depending on how much the person identifies with their profession, it could comparably fall somewhere in that range.  I suppose it could raise higher if the guy's, like, a legendary fish dissector who's now polishing walls for a living, but then we're comparing it to stresses like deliberately deceiving someone you love in a way that is certain to cause them terrible pain if they find out, so I'd probably cap it at 5 except in the most extreme cases.  Either way, though, these are relatively low-level stress checks.

So the dwarf would make a stress check.  If passed, he would gain a hardened notch, and be, like, whatever.  Fuck it.  I didn't like fish anyway, and who am I to know who I am anyway.  If failed, he would get a failed notch and be a bit more unsure of himself, perhaps a bit more pensive.

For it to really start making a serious difference, though, you'd really have to have 3 or more Failed notches ("Half the time your words and actions feel oddly forced, fake or rehearsed--as if, rather than yourself, you were an actor playing you.").  4-5 Hardened notches would mean a little impact on social relationships and bonds, but, as described, it would take about 6 notches to really start making the dwarf start losing connections to others.

In game terms, Failed Self marks could perhaps translate into progressively increasing penalty to XP past a certain skill level to represent lack of investment into/identification with the newer profession.  And perhaps other minor things.

So, in other words, all said, it would have some effect, and over time could have more significant cumulative effects if you fuck with that dwarf too much (it's year seven! time again for annual profession rotation!). But it would really take a lot more to cause anything we would call "insanity."  This severity range is the kind of stuff would most likely just cause some depression and very mild personal Fun for the dwarf.

The system is very well tuned to mild gradients that are well short of anything truly dramatic.  On the other hand, yeah, it definitely would provide a negative feedback to some of the more gamey stuff.
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