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Author Topic: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress  (Read 7874 times)

pamelrabo

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2013, 08:01:04 am »

I just thought about desertions in my last Fortress Undead Disaster.

It is not logical to stay in a doomed town when everybody around is (un)dying. I just totally support the idea of families just leaving when the situation is absolutely unbearable, the same way that migrants come for their own reasons.

The caravan seems.the best chance, or maybe the dwarf can sneak out with food and weapons to embark on their dangerous travel.
After all, migrants come without caravan...
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CaptainLambcake

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2013, 08:11:05 am »

y u necro?
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You wake up in (suddenly) your room not somewhere Armok knows where. Travels in deserts and goblin forests turned up to be a dreams borned by procreation of your autistic imagination.

pamelrabo

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2013, 08:15:42 am »

Used the search box.
It told me this was the thread for the topic.
Wanted to add my support to the whole unhappiness desertion idea, without opening a new thread.

:{|
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Catsup

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2013, 08:49:57 am »

unhappy dwarves that i deem unworthy of rehabilitation in my royal jail room/rehab room leave my fortress through death from the atom-smasher room (usually reserved for children). Its better than to have them tantrum and kill other dwarves that may be more useful, and may cause more tantrums. Slabs are built for them before their ghost appears so no one knew they died, no one else gets any unhappy thoughts from their death.

pamelrabo

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2013, 09:08:26 am »

That's creepy and kind of 1984.

I'd rather let them flee than kill -vanish- them for not loving the Big Brother (me).
"I don't care if you watched a spider kill your baby. Be happy or deal with the consequences".
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Catsup

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2013, 09:28:57 am »

That's creepy and kind of 1984.

I'd rather let them flee than kill -vanish- them for not loving the Big Brother (me).
"I don't care if you watched a spider kill your baby. Be happy or deal with the consequences".
lmao i should sig this hahahaha, but no its not creepy, its cold and unempathetic, but its efficient and effective. And i deem it a valid playing style for a game. My fort's motto is survival of the fort at any and all costs, even if it means 99% of the fort has to be smashed so 1 survivor remains for the next migrant wave, then so be it. My dwarves live so that they may maintain my fort at all costs, and in return they are given great bedrooms and masterwork food, and all the drink they can guzzle. When its require i expect them to die for my fort with a smile, to kill their neighbors, friends, and children with a smile should it be necessary, if it means the survival of the fort.

pamelrabo

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2013, 09:48:57 am »

Even when I manage to do the same, I always  feel I'm giving them the most luxurious death corridor a dwarf can have. For me it's logical to think some of them would prefer to face their destiny (or protect their family) elsewhere.
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Tacyn

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2013, 03:41:35 am »

There should really be different personality "classes" of Dwarves. There should be a large difference between a "frontier" personality class compared to a more "townsman" personality class. This would mean that the less hardened Dwarf would consider leaving your fortress for greener pastures while the more frontier survivalist would try to stick it out and try to fix what's broken.

This can also work the other way around for an established fort.
In the first years mainly frontier-class dwarfs migrate to you and later with a certain size they are gradually replaced by townsman-class.
After that, for example when you become the mountain home, the frontier-class would tend to leave for newer settlements, while townsmen would stick around.
This could work well in conjunction with the coming dwarf settlements.

Quitting isn't very dwarven.  And this would reduce the Fun.

Depends on the dwarf's personality. A very adventurous  dwarf could instead of becoming mad, going berserk or even as a mood decide to become an adventurer instead and leave your fort.
If you then provide the dwarf with weapons, armor and food, he might later return with spoils of his adventures. This would fit well with fortress mode tavern/Inn.
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DWC

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2013, 05:02:13 am »

Having disgruntled dwarves leave the fort with the next dwarven caravan out seems like a reasonable idea. With all the boogymen and  wildlife/ wildundead and whatever unnamed horrors are in the world it would not make sense for them to just storm off alone. Then again, some dwarves get so preoccupied with eating/sleeping/toppling furniture/throwing stuff in these circumstances they might miss the caravan completely if their timing is poor.

In cases where there is a mass tantrum death spiral or creatures from the underground tearing through your fort, I think the regular ol' 'abandon fortress' option models sudden exodus from a doomed fortress well enough.
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2013, 06:43:05 am »

y u necro?

There is no such thing as necroing in this part of the forums ;P
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10ebbor10

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2013, 11:49:35 am »

y u necro?

There is no such thing as necroing in this part of the forums ;P

Yup, don't discourage people from following the rules.
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King Mir

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2013, 06:30:03 pm »

That's creepy and kind of 1984.

I'd rather let them flee than kill -vanish- them for not loving the Big Brother (me).
"I don't care if you watched a spider kill your baby. Be happy or deal with the consequences".
lmao i should sig this hahahaha, but no its not creepy, its cold and unempathetic, but its efficient and effective. And i deem it a valid playing style for a game. My fort's motto is survival of the fort at any and all costs, even if it means 99% of the fort has to be smashed so 1 survivor remains for the next migrant wave, then so be it. My dwarves live so that they may maintain my fort at all costs, and in return they are given great bedrooms and masterwork food, and all the drink they can guzzle. When its require i expect them to die for my fort with a smile, to kill their neighbors, friends, and children with a smile should it be necessary, if it means the survival of the fort.
Good thing the default tile for dwarves is a happy face, then.

Catsup

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2013, 12:43:12 am »

Good thing the default tile for dwarves is a happy face, then.
i dont get what you mean, but i use a tile-set, so dwarves look more more like stout china-dolls with tiny arms and legs and a neutral expression, than a happy face.

Gargomaxthalus

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2013, 06:55:26 am »

I've always liked the idea of Dwarves leaving your lands instead of it always being their tombs. Migration and dispersion makes the world feel much more organic and will add much more depth if we ever see a more "grand strategy-esce" gamemode. Playing an "exodus" gamemode after the fall of a fortress could also be rather interesting, Oregon Trail style. 

There should really be different personality "classes" of Dwarves. There should be a large difference between a "frontier" personality class compared to a more "townsman" personality class. This would mean that the less hardened Dwarf would consider leaving your fortress for greener pastures while the more frontier survivalist would try to stick it out and try to fix what's broken.
 
This would make world gen fair more interesting and could promote cultural schisms. This has happened countless amount of times in human history and is a major factor in "fantasy", see stuff like the "Drow" or "Dark Elf" subraces that are often found in fantasy (although in both human and fantasy it's often more religion based rather than environmental).

Using the concepts that have formed around TSR's work as a frame of reference: "Goodly" Dwarfs should NEVER fall into total tantrum/sadness spirals. Dwarfs are as tough mentally, emotionally and spiritually as they are physically, and they are said to be as tough as the mountains they live under. Dwarfs always seek consensus and/or compromise where matters affecting the clan are concerned. In R.A Salvatores' "The Hunters Blades" trilogy, you have the city of Mirabar. Mirabar is a trade center run by human merchants where all of the mining is done by their Dwarven allies. Tensions over whether or not to join King Bruenor Battlehammers war against the Orc King Obould Many-Arrows, did result in a riot. However, before all out war broke out, the pro "stand up for your fellow Dwarf" Dwarves chose self-imposed exile over causing Mirabar to drown in a sea of human and dwarf blood.

Emigration isn't quitting it's a means to avoid a worst case scenarion. Where do you think your initial 7 Dwarfs come from? They are seven historical figures of minor stature culled from your chosen civilization. They could be outcasts, pioneers, heroes, etc. Right now their history means to quote a great man "precisely dick", but eventually civilization/clan/family/friends dynamics are planned to be added to game to some degree and histories are slated to carry real weight. This is all sure to result in an endless supply of extremely varied horrible, excruciating, indescribable deaths political intrigue, anarchy, holy wars !!!FUN!!!
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Well lets see... at least half of what I say is complete bullshit. Hell the other half tends to be pretty sketchy...

OOOOHHHH,JUST SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AND MAYBE I'LL GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!

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Kast_Oust

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Re: Allow unhappy dwarves to leave your fortress
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2013, 03:51:13 am »

Why make dwarves wanting to leave even based on their unhappiness? They could come and go for all kinds of reasons. It would be interesting to see a sort of "travelers" system in place. Explorers, treasure hunters, or perhaps even wanted criminals running from the law could all come to visit your fortress. they would live in some kind of inn for anywhere from a season to 10+ years, during which time they could work jobs, get married, or participate in whatever other dwarfish activities you so desire. Imagine having characters from all walks of life coming in and bringing with them stories of far away lands, rumors of wars, and legends of their heroic exploits. The tavern from the first Lord of the Rings comes to mind :D
this post might be just slightly off topic, but still an interesting thought
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