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Author Topic: Eador: Genesis  (Read 14714 times)

debvon

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 10:06:03 pm »

I wish I could figure out which units/biuldings provide either positive or negative moral to tier 1 and 2 units...

From what I've seen so far, the theater is an important thing to unlock through conquering if you really want to keep your civilians happy. Once built in your demesne I think it gives mood boosts to provinces that have taverns or inns, or something like that.

If you build the sorcery school for the Extravaganza ritual, try not to rely on it too much. The recharge time is extremely long- 10 turns!
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Viken

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 10:30:15 pm »

Well, I was actually refering to advanced units.  Like having a monk in a group of groudn troops can provide a +1 or +2 moral, but if you have a horseman in the same group, that drops.  Makes it rather annoying, honestly.
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Neonivek

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 10:31:52 pm »

It also isn't a bad idea to negotiate trouble races like the Lizardmen (and Negotiating Halflings gives a bonus) because they tend to be continuously discontent in the early game. In fact the Halfling is a great unit for its price (25 gold for something that is actually on par if not better then an archer)

Also there is a clear supperiority aspect with certain units. Crossbowmen to me are clearly supperior to Bowmen once you get them enough range.
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Viken

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 10:36:20 pm »

Okay, so I do have a single gripe. And that is the strategic resources. Redwood, iron, ect.   Even if you don't have access to these goods, you can still make the units and buildings that require them by buying them outright from a global trade pool.  I don't like that very much. There should be a limit, and there should be a reason to actually hunt for those resources early in the game, and makes getting them a powerful asset to hold onto.
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Neonivek

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2012, 10:38:25 pm »

Not having the resource makes them very expencive that is supposed to be the reason you want them.

It can actually make quite the difference (sometimes even more then double cost) especially for some of the late game resources.
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Frumple

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2012, 12:09:25 am »

Well, I was actually refering to advanced units.  Like having a monk in a group of groudn troops can provide a +1 or +2 moral, but if you have a horseman in the same group, that drops.  Makes it rather annoying, honestly.
It seems to be all.mostly about alignment, there. Neutral guys (bowmen, ferex) are fine with undead, but stick a pikeman or swordsman in a party with undead and the moral for the lawful fleshbags drops like a rock. Haven't unlocked monks yet, in the campaign, so dunno about those guys.

Anyway, on lowest difficulty I'm having the most consistent luck with a necromancer focus, with a bit of ranged to back it up. Latest enemy-crushing army was just two bowmen (around level 4), my mage, and four zombies (which by that point were being summoned at level 12!). The mage was spec'd out with a few debuffs, then about 50/50 of what was left with magic arrows and necromancy spells (mostly zombie, with a couple skeletons, and one lucky ghost find). I'd usually nuke whatever the enemy had that'd die fastest, then pop the ghost up (which would promptly rampage, those things are a pain to kill :-\) and start murdering whatever was closest to my zombie line and replacing them with, well, more zombie meatshields. Meanwhile, the bowmen would plink away at whatever. Tie up, block, turn them into minions. Good stuff.

Alternately just ranged in general. Scout or commander-> scout with plenty of bowmen. Screen of pikemen or swordsmen (I prefer the former, m'self.) to keep critters off you while you murder everything. Just last map I had a mid-teens scout with some lucky-ish kit three-round a hydra, which was amazing :D Map before that, I had a commander -> scout with about eight bowmen and a full line of pikemen. Bowmen usually kill three or four critters a round, at minimum. It was nice. Bowmen are a little troublesome starting out, but once they get some levels in them and can start breaking through the higher defense critters, the extra range really starts paying off. It might tip in the favor of crossbowmen once they get some range into them, but bowmen start hitting that back line a lot sooner :P

Footmen (think that's it, anyway) guards have been pretty helpful for dealing with revolts and junk. Slows down the rebellion creep and pretty promptly knocks 'em down if they get uppity. I think having space (exploration) helps with province mood, as well, so those little red buildings on the map are a semi-bad sign. Which is a bit of a pain, because without a good scout it takes forever to build up a nice buffer.
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Neonivek

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2012, 12:17:51 am »

Quote
It might tip in the favor of crossbowmen once they get some range into them

They become a LOT more useful when you expect that you will have to fight the more armored enemies. The damage difference can be immense.

Archers even with my Commander may deal only 1-3 against a warrior... The Crossbowmen can actually break out 6-8.

Mind you no law that says you cannot use both.

Quote
I think having space (exploration) helps with province mood, as well, so those little red buildings on the map are a semi-bad sign.

Red building means they are larger then explored lands which makes them unhappy and stops their growth after a bit.

I try to get scouts to explore as my second hero since I never have enough time before the enemy is knocking at my front door.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 12:33:21 am by Neonivek »
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Frumple

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2012, 12:36:00 am »

WRT bowmen and armored critters, it depended on what I was leading it with. With the commander -> scout, I just prioritized ranged attack with... everything, really. Level ups on the bowmen and the commander. I'd hit a 10-11-ish level warrior enemy for 3-5, generally. Crossbow buggers probably would have hit for a lot more, but they've got to get closer, too... and they're slower, so it's harder to reposition 'em and still fire on the same turn, which can be pretty useful.

With the mage, I just used the bowmen to hit stuff they could hit and the mage to blast down anything too armored for 'em. Did alright, but the enemy didn't go warrior that game, so... couple maps before that, I had a different mage leader pick up vulnerability and curse. Hit something armored with either of those and you get a couple of turns to lay down quite a bit of hurt.

Scout leader just had so much ranged attack armor was a joke :P Double-shot, ranged attack somewhere in the upper twenties at level 15, plus some precise shot levels. Like I said, that particular bugger three-rounded a hydra (Five shouts, double-double-single), i.e. did >100 damage in that time frame. Warrior'd probably just fall over dead.

Still, I think I'll do a commander -> scout with crossbowmen next game, see how it goes. Have to doublecheck and see if commanders have anything to boost minion speed up a point so they CBM's a bit more mobile.
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Neonivek

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2012, 12:52:25 am »

They cannot make Minions move faster but they can get an ability that lets them move faster on the world map.

I love Commanders if only because they make ranged units so powerful by the end. As well they can pump up defense and counter attack so much that Pikemen can outdamage everyone. You will notice the difference between a unit and a unit with a commander (at least for level 1s. I am not sure if level 3s will even care)

Commander's major weakness however is that they are by far the weakest of the four heros. To the extent where even ordinary units are supperior. Keep the Commander out of battles until much further down the line and do not automate battles because that is a good way to get the commander killed early on.

I've made pure Commanders. It doesn't pay off as well as pure other classes.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 01:06:54 am by Neonivek »
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Frumple

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2012, 01:07:15 am »

Yeah, taking the commander scout (for bow access, and the innate range attack boost) or mage (probably primarily for debuffs) for its level 10 is probably a really good idea, especially the latter. Sniping flimsy but dangerous stuff from across the field's a lot better than plodding towards the enemy, as is, generally, being able to throw debuffs and such around. Curse and vulnerability are particularly useful on a commander that's going heavy range, for obvious reasons :P

Even with a vanilla commander loading 'im up with curse and vuln isn't a bad idea. Even one turn of that debuff is one turn of your whole firing line breaking through a bit more of something's armor. Definitely wouldn't use the bugger as a primary melee combatant unless I lucked out pretty hard with armor/weapons, though, yeah.
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Neonivek

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2012, 01:11:02 am »

Ohh yeah I forgot the reason why you would want a pure commander... More units

I completely forgot that Commanders also field the largest army size (and least EVERYTHING ELSE!) and that Mages Field the largest Magic size.

Halflings are sort of an interesting unit They are kinda like sleeper units in that levels make the largest difference on them, even so far as getting armor pierce. But they need levels which you arn't likely to get with them. They also resist range making them safer to use against enemy archers.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 01:14:56 am by Neonivek »
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debvon

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2012, 01:25:40 am »

I absolutely love dwarves in this game. There was this dwarven settlement in the hills near my kingdom and they were mining iron. I figured I could use the resource and since the dwarves were slow, it wouldn't be an issue taking them out. Well I was right on both accounts, but the dwarves hated oppression and constantly rebelled. I built an outpost and filled it with recruits, and the garrison with crossbowmen.. but it just wouldn't hold. Their ballistae are completely ridiculous. The range is huge, they pierce armor, and the damage is nasty. You can try to rush it with a fast melee.. but getting by the dwarves (and usually in hills) is very difficult. I guess it would have been easier with magic arrow, but I didn't have it for some reason.

On a side note, is anybody else finding the warrior to be really overpowered, even in higher difficulties? With a full set of plate and a zweihander you can solo whole armies. Not to mention artifact gear.. if you can save up a bit of gold and buy a good weapon from a specialized weapon shop, oh boy. You may think "Well they're slow..", but that's only true for a low level warrior! The more you level up, the more points you can put into mobility. I had a warrior that could run up to 5 tiles with forced march, plus he had charge.
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Neonivek

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2012, 01:29:39 am »

All the heros are overpowered in their own way. High level supported heros will solo all the enemies as well.

I've defeated plate laden warriors before.

If I had to pick the weakest hero it would be the commander. I want to test to see if a four upgrade pure commander is any good. It seems unlikely though.

Part of it also has to deal with the Computer AI. They will use inferior units out of preference. There is NO reason why you would ever use Peasants... and Slingers fall out of usefulness pretty fast.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 03:03:40 am by Neonivek »
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anzki4

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2012, 08:15:30 am »

Bought this when it was on sale on GOG and I freakin' love it, although I haven't played it much.

I found mage with couple healing spells, one or two summon imps (just in case) and tons of attack spells, combined with tons of shamans and a couple melee units work really well. First you gotta take out the enemy ranged units out with your mage* and when the enemy melee units move closer, block them with your melee units* and let the shaman spell spamming commence. Only trouble is tons of flying units, because they can get to the shamans (and kill them) very quickly.

Some of the dialogue with your adviser in the campaign is also pretty hilarious.


*Because pretty much everything can one-hit shaman.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 08:22:57 am by anzki4 »
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melkorp

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Re: Eador: Genesis
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2012, 08:16:10 am »

Mages and Scouts in their ranged-ness seem to have an easier time initially.  I like that you can succeed with better meatshields in front of a ranged-attack badass, or just black out the sky with arrows and throw a peasant to the enemy as bait.

I love the way the Campaign is structured, I don't think I've seen anything like that in a game before.  It sort of feels like you've been pulled out of the stands at a Major League baseball game and given one at-bat, but because you're new you get 5 strikes.  Master of Orion felt like that at first too.
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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...It should be pretty fun though.
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