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Author Topic: Fog of War for Fortress Mode  (Read 2982 times)

Carp McDwarfEater

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2012, 11:36:21 am »

Yeah, the main reason I want this is just so that if I wall off a part of my fort that was flooded or something, I don't have to see that ruin in all its ugliness.

This is really the only reason I mentioned dwarves forgetting about areas. It could be slightly annoying at times, but the terrain being forgotten would be a gradual thing. If you've sealed off a cavern for three or four years then I don't find it that unreasonable that your dwarves would forget exactly what was down there. It probably wouldn't matter to most players because chances are if they were going to do anything with the cavern, they'd have done it by then and not sealed it off.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2012, 04:13:50 pm »

It wouldn't make sense that they'd forget the general layout of the caverns, though. Some way of remembering the general layout while forgetting the specifics would be needed. That, or maps.
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Graknorke

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2012, 04:19:34 pm »

If you want it for aesthetics, then wouldn't it be more useful to have an order to have the dwarves forget a certain area, done similarly to traffic zones; so that anything you've hidden is highlighted while in the orders menu.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2012, 04:39:34 pm »

Like hidden items?
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Graknorke

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2012, 05:07:03 pm »

Like hidden items?
Yes, but for the game tiles.
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Carp McDwarfEater

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2012, 05:14:20 pm »

If you want it for aesthetics, then wouldn't it be more useful to have an order to have the dwarves forget a certain area, done similarly to traffic zones; so that anything you've hidden is highlighted while in the orders menu.

I hadn't thought of that. But yeah, I'd be happy with the ability to hide map tiles.
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Baccar Wozat

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2012, 05:55:25 pm »

It would make more sense, but if we're gonna have areas that you can't see because you haven't been to them in awhile, you might as well have Line-of-Sight (LoS) routines which are more commonly found in roguelikes.

It would be a real programming feat to have LoS for more than one dwarf at once. (Though if anyone can, Toady can.)

Fog of War, on the other hand, is something found in Empire-likes, and creates the impression that an area you can see is empty when it isn't.
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Graknorke

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2012, 06:34:46 pm »

It would make more sense, but if we're gonna have areas that you can't see because you haven't been to them in awhile, you might as well have Line-of-Sight (LoS) routines which are more commonly found in roguelikes.

It would be a real programming feat to have LoS for more than one dwarf at once. (Though if anyone can, Toady can.)

Fog of War, on the other hand, is something found in Empire-likes, and creates the impression that an area you can see is empty when it isn't.
If it was instantly forgetting where something was once it's out of LoS, then that would really bugger up the management gameplay. You'd have to send out a military squad to explore the kitchens if your brewer and cook left; so that they could provide LoS to the workshops so that you could actually give orders to them.
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Baccar Wozat

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2012, 10:13:40 pm »

It would make more sense, but if we're gonna have areas that you can't see because you haven't been to them in awhile, you might as well have Line-of-Sight (LoS) routines which are more commonly found in roguelikes.

It would be a real programming feat to have LoS for more than one dwarf at once. (Though if anyone can, Toady can.)

Fog of War, on the other hand, is something found in Empire-likes, and creates the impression that an area you can see is empty when it isn't.
If it was instantly forgetting where something was once it's out of LoS, then that would really bugger up the management gameplay. You'd have to send out a military squad to explore the kitchens if your brewer and cook left; so that they could provide LoS to the workshops so that you could actually give orders to them.
What Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup does in that instance, is keep everything already shown before, but if not currently in sight, it's darkened 50%. That way everyone knows where things should be, even if they aren't anymore.
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Graknorke

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2012, 10:20:08 pm »

It would make more sense, but if we're gonna have areas that you can't see because you haven't been to them in awhile, you might as well have Line-of-Sight (LoS) routines which are more commonly found in roguelikes.

It would be a real programming feat to have LoS for more than one dwarf at once. (Though if anyone can, Toady can.)

Fog of War, on the other hand, is something found in Empire-likes, and creates the impression that an area you can see is empty when it isn't.
If it was instantly forgetting where something was once it's out of LoS, then that would really bugger up the management gameplay. You'd have to send out a military squad to explore the kitchens if your brewer and cook left; so that they could provide LoS to the workshops so that you could actually give orders to them.
What Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup does in that instance, is keep everything already shown before, but if not currently in sight, it's darkened 50%. That way everyone knows where things should be, even if they aren't anymore.
So like adventure mode works basically?
The only issues I have with that are that the flickering would be really distracting, and it feels like the kind of feature that ends up like more of an annoyance than a genuine challenge.
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Carp McDwarfEater

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2012, 10:48:35 pm »

The system I described would only have fog of war over areas inaccessible to dwarves, so there wouldn't be that problem. Line of sight was never mentioned, because I don't think that would work well.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2012, 11:44:23 pm »

It was mentioned, just not by you.

It would make more sense, but if we're gonna have areas that you can't see because you haven't been to them in awhile, you might as well have Line-of-Sight (LoS) routines which are more commonly found in roguelikes.

It would be a real programming feat to have LoS for more than one dwarf at once. (Though if anyone can, Toady can.)

I agree, LOS is stupid.
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Fluoman

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2012, 01:35:57 pm »

Add an option in the nobles screen: "map drawer" with precision settings like in record keeping.
There, you have someone to "remember" the layout of caverns and hills and so on.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2012, 01:52:40 pm »

Cartographer.

Anyways, maps open up some interesting idea, like exploration, selling maps, selling bad maps...
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PTTG??

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Re: Fog of War for Fortress Mode
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2013, 12:34:43 pm »

From a programmatic standpoint, the simplest way to do this is, every in-game "day", pick a random tile somewhere on the map, or perhaps one tile in each currently loaded chunk, or something like that. If that tile is underground and out of sight to any Dwarves, then visually hide it.

Problem 1: Currently, substantial portions of the "undiscovered" areas of the map aren't loaded. Hiding them won't unload them, and shouldn't. So there will need to be some level of awareness of things like invaders entering areas that are unknown to the Dwarves but have been loaded. Handling edge cases like this could be troublesome.

Problem 2: This results in at least one additional bit of information about each and every tile on the map. This will bloat saves and slow the engine, perhaps significantly. These concerns might not be worth the gain.

Still, an interesting idea if these problems can be addressed.
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