Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[wierd]

The layer underneath the drowning chamber is aquifer. The walls can absorb infinite amounts of water, instantly. You cannot pressurize if the walls are aquifer soil/stone. That is why it makes an effective drain for the drowning chamber. Once the drowning chamber reaches capacity, water in the tank will teleport into the aquifer below.

[gunpowdertea]

Water piston?

If you dig out the bottom underneath the drowning chamber and have grates to allow the water to teleport in, dropping a block which is say, 5 z tall by however wide x/y into a 3 z deep chamber of water will give 1 z on top of the level where the block was and 1 z in the level above.

I've not done it with water which may behave differently due to pressure being a thing, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it blasts all of the grates into the air or something crazy like that.

But the piston needs to move down, where it displaces the water (gets teleported to the top), and the maximum of water "levels" you are getting on top is the number of z-levels you dropped the piston (there is some spill, the water needs to be caught with bridges on the sides, ...). If you have the drowning chamber at z=0, then you need empty space at z=-1. The piston drops, say, 2z levels into a full cistern. The piston top is now at z=-3. There is water all the way up to z=-1, but it won't be pushed up into z=0.

So unless you drop the piston through the drowning chamber... (so cave in + drowning)

Edit: well, that is just what you suggested (on a second read...). Remark: Water teleports, there is no need for grates. There have to be bridges at some z-level below to retain the water... sadly this is a non-repeatable design (but could be made repeatable by pumping magma up and obsidianizing the top of the piston again).

Edit2: Looking at the maze: the hallways need to be 3 tiles wide at least in order to have the piton walls completely detached, so it can cave in properly ('cause the piston top needs to be the same level as teh drowning chamber). In the end this will just be a cave in trap, though - but with added drowning, and then magma do make it repeatable, which sounds quite dwarven to me.

[Max™]

Ohhh, yeah, you've had to build a walled off/smoothed section to do the piston... I gotta try to build a water piston now after thinking about it.

I miscounted the height, I meant set it up so a tall piston drops into a shallower space so it displaces all of the water up on top, I did it to make big above-ground--and super dramatic--magma columns, but I haven't tried to force magma UP through something due to the lack of pressure.

Wonder if you could use it to cram too much water into a series of pipes and ahve them force feed the trap?

[gunpowdertea]

I miscounted the height, I meant set it up so a tall piston drops into a shallower space so it displaces all of the water up on top,

Nope, doesn't work (unless fluids have changed). Dwarven Physics behaves quite differently when it comes to fluids: The fluids are teleported in DF, so all will end up on the sides of your piston and not on top of the piston pump... search for the magma piston, it was discussed there at some length (I believe), though this question comes up every now and then.

[Max™]

Oh, I know how they work, I was just trying to find some way to use one to fill the chamber more dramatically.

Thinking about it, I did make a drop-away wall around a chamber full of magma, with the wall itself being a piston, and it produced a pretty dramatic flood.

None were quite as crazy as the onacloV though:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's an inside out Volcano, hence onacloV.

Perhaps if you built a pressurized cistern around a drowning chamber, with the wall directly around the chamber itself being a hollow piston, though it would be a pain to set back up if you weren't careful about how you linked up some magma tubes or just felt like playing with liquids and tiletypes as I did for the onacloV.

[gunpowdertea]

Oh, I know how they work, I was just trying to find some way to use one to fill the chamber more dramatically.

Thinking about it, I did make a drop-away wall around a chamber full of magma, with the wall itself being a piston, and it produced a pretty dramatic flood.

None were quite as crazy as the onacloV though:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's an inside out Volcano, hence onacloV.

Perhaps if you built a pressurized cistern around a drowning chamber, with the wall directly around the chamber itself being a hollow piston, though it would be a pain to set back up if you weren't careful about how you linked up some magma tubes or just felt like playing with liquids and tiletypes as I did for the onacloV.

That actually sounds like fun. Nobody said the piston couldn't be hollow, the drowning chamber in the inside of it. Basically piston-pumping the water in from the sides (all at once) and then draining through a sieve in the bottom. I like that. Build a tube in the centre, the drowning chambre at the top level, with fortifications. The top level can be closed with a retracting bridge so that the water can accumulate and drown everything. Then you open the bridge and flush, using the fact that most stuff can be pushed through fortifications if the water levels are high (and the pressure). The stuff accumulates in the bottom (close to the smelters and an incineration device), where the goblinite is refined by removing the impurities (goblins) that are dumped into magma. This reduces hauling quite a lot. Catastrophic failure if you get a enemies that do not drown, but for that make the bottom of the drain so it can be opened into the magma sea. You will lose that vein of goblinite, but hopefully the next one will be delivered soon enough.

[Max™]

Yup, that's what I was thinking, put it like:

cistern cistern cistern cistern cistern
cistern Piston Piston Piston cistern
cistern i drowningchamber n cistern
cistern s drowningchamber o cistern
cistern t drowning chamber t cistern
cistern on Piston Piston Pis cistern
cistern access area for later cistern

Pressurize the sides, put water in the bottom area where the piston wall drops, let them in through uh... a bridged over tunnel will keep water out but won't provide support, right? With the sides raised and top down flush against them?

Afterwards if you've got enough magma and make the materials inside properly you just dump magma in to obsidianize the interior, then dig it back out and reset the piston.

[Larix]

Just to mention it - if you want to get your drowning chamber quickly filled with water, the earlier advice is still the most practical - pressure. Gravity works best - a higher-level reservoir releasing water into the labyrinth, preferably through hatches or retracting bridges in the ceiling. Draining can become a nuisance, even with an aquifer below.

Wouldn't a piston dropped directly into the chamber either turn the chamber into a compact block or knock out the floor?

[Naryar]

Make your maze out of fortifications so water floods more easily, and leaves more easily.

Also having a giant-ass cistern above this Z-level dumping into the labyrinth via floor hatches and a small pumpstack feeding it from the aquifer would be good. But it's quite a lot of work and it requires unused space.

And I am seeing a blood thorn/redcap growing into your labyrinth... this may prove fun. Do saplings even grow into one-tile "trees" if they don't have enough place or do they stay saplings ?

[Max™]

I was thinking of having a piston dropping underneath but forgot that you can't get the clearance needed to get liquid above the chamber that way.

Then I suggested having what is more or less a hollowed out piston around the drowning chamber with a cistern on the outside, pressurize of course, so you end up with the water under the piston walls teleporting up into the path of more water trying to fill the chamber, should be fun.

[Aslandus]

And I am seeing a blood thorn/redcap growing into your labyrinth... this may prove fun. Do saplings even grow into one-tile "trees" if they don't have enough place or do they stay saplings ?

Saplings stay saplings until they die if there's no room to grow. It makes tree farms really hard to make now...

[Slogo]

Pressure can be an immense force in water chambers. I once made one of the following design:

Code: [Select]

D = Door ~ = Water (over floor) | = Wall # = Downstairs/Hatch . = floor
\ & / are ramps


 \.###########./
 \.###########./(To Fort)
 \.###########./

Below (-1)

T
~|
~|~~~~~~~~~~~
D~~~~~~~~~~~~
 |~~~~~~~~~~~

T is where the water hooked up to a cistern several levels above.

When the door is closed the diagonal keeps water pressure connecting and the upper level of the passage stays clear of water.

When the door is thrown open the water's response is immediate. It suddenly has the ability to pressurize to the level above. After a small delay in the simulation starting a wave of 7/7 water will flow from Left -> Right on the upper level and in maybe like 30ticks the entire upper level will be filled with 7/7 water. Pretty much each tick sees a new block of 7/7 water teleported into the trap.

There does seem to be a drawback in the idea though, if there's water on the upper level when the door is closed (i.e. when you are resetting the trap) opening the door won't trigger the trap. That or something like that causing it to not work, but if you build in proper drainage it should be ok.

Plus it's relatively easy to setup, you only need a cistern 1 level above the trap and some doors to control the draining/filling. In your design you probably wouldn't use ramps at the ends and instead use doors/bridges which is fine.

[GavJ]

Pretty much each tick sees a new block of 7/7 water teleported into the trap.

It should be instantaneous. A large enough reservoir with full orthogonal access should empty entirely in a single tick, IIRC.

[Slogo]

Pretty much each tick sees a new block of 7/7 water teleported into the trap.

It should be instantaneous. A large enough reservoir with full orthogonal access should empty entirely in a single tick, IIRC.

Yeah that's what I had thought too, but it didn't work that way. It would create an actual wave that would travel from left to right over a very short amount of time. Basically making a cool animated wave effect.

[GavJ]

It might matter whether your opening to the reservoir is on the northwest or southeast corners of the map, or something like that. I.e., in some algorithm somewhere, it does a sweep of the map, and it could matter whether the opening is near the beginning, or near the end after a bunch of tiles are already processed as to whether it is instant or not.

So both might happen.

This is known to be the case for pumpstacks in the vertical order of pumps built, as a similar situation.

But I know absolutely for sure that it CAN be huge volumes of water in one tick, because I've made big horizontal cones of hundreds of ice before with reservoirs in freezing biomes that flooded out and then froze the next tick, plugging the hole behind them and making it impossible for that to have happened gradually (plus i watched it frame by frame)

There might be some limit like so many hundreds of tiles or whatever, for some reason, can't speak to that, but the limit is higher than several dozen if there is one.