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Author Topic: Experiments with the undead  (Read 1648 times)

leinaD_natiaC

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Experiments with the undead
« on: January 23, 2013, 09:04:22 pm »

I want to run a few tests on dwarfs with minimal equipment vs zombies and the like, to check out several things. For example:
Cheapest way to arm a dwarf so as to make him able to defend the other six while the fort gets set up for the first time
Damaging potential of undead skulls, skin and hair (hair can become undead, right?)
How many undead mosquito women does it take to maim a fisherdwarf, etc
So I'd like some tips from all you hardened dwarf SCIENTISTS out there. I might post useful findings on the wiki. And I'd also like to know if there is any way to make creatures undead in the object testing arena.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 09:30:50 pm »

In the testing arena, you can make creatures you spawn as undead.  in the menu that you select the creature you want, use the u key to set a property (It says "No Effect" by default.).  Incidentally, you can also make vampires and necromancers this way.

However, test there may not be totally accurate, as most undead you would encounter may be able to reanimate, either due to the biome or because of a local necromancer.
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leinaD_natiaC

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 09:47:12 pm »

I'll just take notes of any injuries the dwarfs take and note it as cumulative. If groundhog skin is capable of bruising the tanners, likely over time they will add up eventually knocking out some unlucky dwarf. Or worse. It's just to see how high of a priority avoiding local undead wildlife should be.
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CaptApollo12

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2013, 12:03:08 am »

... high... wall yourself off immediatly....
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leinaD_natiaC

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2013, 11:12:50 am »

But don't you want to STRECH THE LIMITS?!? For science?
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Karakzon

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2013, 11:17:56 am »

shield and weapon are basics.

Get someone kitted out in copper with basic block and dodge and your good to go.
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MasterShizzle

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2013, 05:14:12 pm »

I'm torn between trying out hammers for this, or possibly axes. Axes have the decapitation factor that is pretty much the only way to deal with thralls. But with zombies, one zombie getting chopped up just makes a bunch more zombies.

Maybe you could try the one-beard-two-boards approach: make two wood shields for a dwarf that embarks with Proficient Shield User to give him better block chances and shield bash. I think with even leather armor and a couple of cloaks he could last a good long while. And taking cheap leather at embark is a lot quicker and easier to turn into armor, as opposed to taking an anvil and some chunks of ore. You'll still want the metal, obviously, but the leather could be a good stopgap until you get your smithery set up.
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Hyndis

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 06:02:56 pm »

An amusing thing is that vampires and zombies get along well. They will ignore each other and happily go about their business.

Thus, it would be possible to create a vampire fortress. You'd need a breeding population of dwarves. Keep them safe and secured away from the zombie hordes. You also need to contaminate a well with the blood of a vampire.

Any new peasants will be sent to the room with the contaminated well and forced to drink the water, turning into a vampire. Once they're turned, then they can join the rest of the vampires and zombies in the undead fortress. An airlock can keep the living and breeding population safe.

Just let the zombies roam around your fortress. They'll ignore your vampire dwarves, but any living creatures will be attacked, eaten, and turned to more zombies. This includes migrants, caravans, and sieges.
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Randy Gnoman

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2013, 07:03:28 pm »

I like evil embarks!  I take a silver war hammer with me, and some copper armor.  I don't waste points on a copper shield, though- a wooden one works just as well for blocking, and while it's not quite as good for bashing I don't think the difference is really worth it.  The hammer is what's getting the work done anyhow.  My armor priorities are Helmet->breastplate->other, but honestly if you're taking too many hits you're screwed anyhow.  Pain is what usually kills my protectors:  they get a few broken fingers and toes, and pretty soon they're passing out and the zombies are chewing on their heads.

Don't bother with axes- some limbs reanimate independently after being severed, so you'll quickly multiply the number of enemies you're facing.  You just shouldn't try to take on thralls with the starting seven.  You just shouldn't.  If you're facing thralls that early, just dig a hole, hide in it, and hope for the best.

Protectors are only a short-term solution, and only good for deflecting attacks from the weaker undead:  you need to build a barrier.  A single soldier with partial equipment is no match of a herd of skeletal muskoxen.

The strength of any animated part is based on the strength of the base creature, so a clump of yak hair is more dangerous than a whole zombie cat. 

Chitin cannot be processed (without modding) and it will reanimate, so giant insects and insect people can be a real nuisance, and should be pitted ASAP.

Don't forget a spinner:  it's easy to forget the hair, and think that your butcher has taken care of the problem.  But hair will reanimate, and is divisibile into multiple clumps of hair through combat, making it more dangerous than any reasonable being would expect.  I once thought I would be clever and use a pit of hair as a kind of danger room, and the result was more !!fun!! than anticipated.

It's a good idea to mod your raws to allow you to butcher sentient beings.  Otherwise you need to atom-smash or incinerate the corpses of sentient beings, or pit them indefinitely.

I think that creatures might stop decaying while they're undead- I killed a zombie goblin which had been trapped in a pit for a long time once, and got some tasty goblin meat for butchering it, when I would have expected for it to be rotten.  I haven't extensively tested that, but if it's true it could be a fun and profitable alternative to refrigeration.

DO NOT invest in pets for defense, even (or especially) strong ones.  They can kill some of the weaker undead, but they inevitably get killed and become part of the problem.  That said, very weak pets can be good trap bait, and a number of weak undead pets (kittens, chickens, rabbits...) can be a good military training method that feels less exploity than a danger room (but also requires careful management and a disposal plan).

The undead will actively charge any living thing they see, which means you'll be attacked much sooner than you would be by normal wildlife, but which also means that undead are conspicuously easy to lure into traps.

If you catch all of a group of creatures in cage traps, or destroy them, more creatures will enter the map.  But if you trap them in an inescapable pit without killing them, new creatures won't enter the map and the threat will be contained- so if you really want to control the undead population, a pit trap might be more effective than cage traps or violence.

This is on the wiki, but bears repeating:  Lava will not kill undead. 
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Sutremaine

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 09:31:12 pm »

Lava won't kill undead, but it's good for disposing of killed parts. Flood them then kill them, and unless they're fire imps or other magma-safe creatures their remains will be destroyed.

Masses of bolts are a good way of making undead into dead.
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shrike.ex

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 10:18:55 pm »

I just tried to embark in an undead biome for the first time...  Oh Armok do I wish I had read this thread first. I brought axes.  I was later attacked by a raven head. o.O  On a good note, my 'avatar' was the first to die, and later reanimated to kill off my entire fortress. My corpse did such a thorough job that it was awarded a title.
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laularukyrumo

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Re: Experiments with the undead
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 10:52:25 pm »

Lava may not destroy animated corpses, but nothing survives the sum of magma and water. If you have the patience and mechanical knowledge to set up an obsidianizing chamber, then lure those bastards in, lock the doors, and turn them to stone.

Flash-freezing pools of water also work, but require a frigid embark, and so aren't as reliable as turn-to-stone traps.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 10:55:09 pm by laularukyrumo »
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