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Author Topic: Best metal for each weapon?  (Read 23495 times)

paladin225

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Best metal for each weapon?
« on: February 06, 2013, 09:29:47 am »

I've heard silver is the best metal for blunt weapons like war hammers because of its high density. I assume silver is good for maces then too. What about axes, swords and spears though?  Is steel the best metal to use for those?
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Garath

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 10:13:59 am »

maces are blunt, so silver. Unless edited, silver whips are a special kind of scary

anything sharp = steel, this goes for piercing and cutting sharpness, so spear/sword/axe
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Naryar

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 10:43:33 am »

Blunt weapons = Silver
Crossbows = Copper
Picks = Steel (although pick material doesn't influence mining, it does if you use picks for war. You should, by the way)
Edged weapons = Adamantine. If you can't get your hands on it, then use steel.

Telgin

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 11:24:12 am »

I believe testing was done that has shown that pretty much all metals performed similarly for blunt weapons, except for adamantine.  Silver and copper make good choices because they're usually easy to find and cheap compared to iron or steel.

For edged weapons you'll want at least bronze or iron if possible.  The two perform about the same I believe, although making bronze yourself is usually not possible and iron is fairly uncommon.  If you can make it, steel is the best mundane material.

Adamantine makes the best edged weapon material.  Due to its density it makes terrible blunt weapons however.
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A_S00

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 12:30:08 pm »

maces are blunt, so silver. Unless edited, silver whips are a special kind of scary
Anybody know of any !!SCIENCE!! comparing regular quality silver whips (which you can get in spades from goblinite) to high quality (exceptional/masterwork) versions of other weapons?  Seems like it's probably a relevant question, since most mature forts will have plenty of both options.
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Garath

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 05:53:20 pm »

actually, any kind of (unmodded) whip is pretty scary

And to come back to the silver/blunt question, I agree it's a big point in my considerations that silver can be used for blunt weapons or for statues (or barrels etc, but just one military use) while many other metals have more uses and so, since I'll always have too much silver I use it for hammers and bolts
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Tevish Szat

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 06:30:06 pm »

Blunt Weapons: Silver -- even if it's not particularly distinct from other metals (sans candy), that does mean its no worse, and silver doesn't compete with...
Edged or Pointy Weapons: Steel (or Cotton Candy)
Crossbows: Depends on who's wielding it.  Since they're blunt in combat, Silver is a good choice for army marksdwarves.  For fortress guard, the wiki suggests that bone, light wood, or candy will reduce beating severity, though there have been some disagreements on this of late.
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13thEssence

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 08:11:38 pm »

I had questions similar to OP's and recently had a good discussion with a couple of IRC regulars who know the internal guts of DF pretty well.  Mostly just as stated in posts here.
Blunt: Silver, Copper  Edge: Adamantine, Steel, Iron, Bronze  Crossbows: usually Copper for bashing.

We also talked about bolts and shields.
Bolts: fairly even and lethal across the board as long as they are metal.  They almost ignore any armour except chainmail shirts.  They have an edge attack, which sometimes is directly converted to a blunt attack by armour, and a projectiles benefit from density.  However, somehow all that has very little significance when it comes to actual testing, which I don't understand.  Just avoid adamantine bolts (rare, useless vs adamantine armour), and save your wooden bolts for training and bone for hunting.  If you have lots of spare silver, use it, otherwise use copper.
Shields: Any material offers essential and equal protection.  But shields also bash, a blunt attack, so (Edit: silver) copper is best for its density.  Except for marksdwarves who are always well isolated behind fortifications.  Use light wood (Edit: or leather) for shields for greater mobility with the same protection from elite archers.

We didn't talk about spears, which have both an edge and a blunt attack.  Anyone chime in?

Crossbows: Since they're blunt in combat, Silver is a good choice for army marksdwarves.
Crossbows can't be forged from silver.
Crossbows: For fortress guard, the wiki suggests that bone, light wood, or candy will reduce beating severity, though there have been some disagreements on this of late.
I'm interested in reading this discussion if available.  Link please.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 02:28:18 am by 13thEssence »
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Telgin

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 08:40:26 pm »

I think Toady fixed it so that the fortress guard won't use weapons in beatings any more, and only use their fists for beatings now.  I'd be interested to hear for sure one way or the other though.
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Sutremaine

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 08:44:26 pm »

You can't make shields from silver in vanilla DF. Copper is the heaviest material. Copper is the best offensive material for shields and crossbows, but for armed civilians I prefer leather and bone respectively. Bone crossbows can be produced in huge numbers most of the time, and trade requests can bring in huge amounts of leather in the second autumn. Bolts can get pretty heavy (39L for 25 silver bolts), and the extra weight of the copper will weigh down weaker dwarves. Physically-trained dwarves, whether melee or ranged, get copper. They can take the weight, and in a pinch they can wade in and start bashing.

Spears would be a better option if enemies were either too large to carve with an axe or fully-armoured. As it is, when you have an axe, you can apply a level of force that few things can stand against. You just don't need the piercing ability of a spear, especially because the AI is just as happy to stab toes as it is torsos.

Potentially interesting option: silver battle axes, preferably in the hands of notably strong dwarves. Against animals they should carve through flesh, and against armoured organics the edge won't get through and it should convert to blunt damage. They'd be more like sharpened maces than axes...
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Tevish Szat

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 09:16:40 pm »

Crossbows: Since they're blunt in combat, Silver is a good choice for army marksdwarves.
Crossbows can't be forged from silver.
I make them out of bone because its easy, so I kind of forgot that.  that would mean, as everyone has said, copper is the next best.
Crossbows: For fortress guard, the wiki suggests that bone, light wood, or candy will reduce beating severity, though there have been some disagreements on this of late.
I'm interested in reading this discussion if available.  Link please.
Sorry, no link.  Not because I don't want to provide it, but because I tried to dig for the thread and couldn't remember which one it was.
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A medium-sized humanoid fond of fantasy and science-fiction.

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13thEssence

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Re: Best metal for each weapon?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 02:22:37 am »

You can't make shields from silver in vanilla DF.\
I realized that today when I tried to make some, and was coming back to correct it before anyone noticed.  Too late.  :-[  I guess the guys I was talking to use some extended silver smithing mods.

Leather shields... oh yeeeeah.

Interestingly, and unrelated, thongs provide 25% coverage of a dwarf's lower body.  That's a lot of dwarf right there.  :o
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